Steve Bruce

[terrytini]

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Stevo - I really dont want enemy status between us.

It‘s really not an agenda, honestly. I think that Bruce‘s „way“ is not good enough in the immediate & long term. I really don‘t enjoy the football, and the results so far have not got us promoted or in a promoting position so far. You don‘t have to agree with me, but at least accept my pov.

Those who say they don‘t care how as long as we get promoted, I can understand their pov. I just dont have that opinion. What is soooo wrong with that?

I explained why I see things as I do, and the Art of something is the attraction for me. Surely if you are thirsty and you pay for the drink, it‘s your choice and you choose your prefered drink.

If I pay for a ticket or sky coverage surely I am free to enjoy what I deem enjoyable and vice versa if what I see is not. (Even if I‘m only paying with attention or fanatisism)

Anyway, on with the season.

I honestly want us promoted, I‘ll take a scrape through if it‘s all we get. I wont enjoy the spectacle if this is as good as it gets. 

 I feel your pain ! And I’m sure many others do. It’s been pretty horrible  at times.

I’ve shared and agreed with a lot of your complaints.

But I do think there IS evidence that Bruce has at least tried - in the last 6 weeks or so basically since he said “it’s time to stamp our authority” or whatever he said - to change from his premeditated defensive approach ( in some games more than others) and be a little more positive in approach, selection, and tactics....and I do think things have improved. But we are NEVER going to play possession (etc etc) football under Bruce ( and I must admit that in itself doesn’t bother me) and we are never going to be a side that tries to steamroller games.....Bruce like a lot of Managers no doubt is better informed than us lot as to the success ratio of holding slender leads rather than opening up and risking defeat..

So if I may, I’d offer some advice.....meant genuinely.

Decide now whether you are prepared to enjoy grit, effort, defensive organisation, team spirit, and the odd bit of clinical breakaway football/ some decent individual performances, etc, as long as we get results. Or whether you want something more. If it’s the latter I’m afraid you are going to have a very very unhappy season. 

Because he isn’t going anywhere this season, and for all the legitimate doubts and concerns we might regret it if he did now ( its late in the day to risk a new guy) and he IS getting results now.....there IS some decent play....there ARE reasons to look forward to the games, and we DO seem to have something of a good spirit in the squad.

So in my case I’ve taken those pluses, and those realities, and thought “ if I try hard can I make a case to myself to try and enjoy this ?” And at the moment (!) I can ! And it’s far nicer looking forward to tomorrow’s game than it was when I practically dreaded going !

In short I think I’m saying that although there is enough to criticise if one wanted to, there is enough at present IMO to feel at least reasonably ok about, also if one wants to.

 

[tomav84]

33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Its absolutely safe to say Bruce is the best bet of getting us up now then without him. We are approaching winter and he hasnt lost the players which is of course pleasing. They seem to be enjoying their football and the team spirit is there to see.

I think if he was sacked now it would lead to a implosion like when rowett went. Whatever happens he has to stay for the immediate future/end of season.

The hysteria dying down has made me feel romantically nourished.  

i agree however i feel we are only a dropped 2 or 3 points at home to sheff wed (or similar in future games) from said hysteria starting up again. as i said yesterday, i counted 3 'bruce outs' in the first page alone of the ratings thread of the blues game

[terrytini]

Just now, tomav84 said:

i agree however i feel we are only a dropped 2 or 3 points at home to sheff wed (or similar in future games) from said hysteria starting up again. as i said yesterday, i counted 3 'bruce outs' in the first page alone of the ratings thread of the blues game

Because it’s not hysteria.

For the most part people who want or wanted Bruce out had perfectly valid, calm, reasons for it, just like many many thousands of fans at Palace, Everton, Sunderland, etc. There is no reason why others should agree with those views, but they are no more “ hysterical” than those who wanted him to stay were blind, or scared.

The reason there is less call for him to go is because there is less reason to want him gone, and less reason to think a change would now help, yet unsurprisingly, there could be more reasons to want him gone in the future, just as there could be less and then people comments might change.

Simple really ?

[tomav84]

8 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 I feel your pain ! And I’m sure many others do. It’s been pretty horrible  at times.

I’ve shared and agreed with a lot of your complaints.

But I do think there IS evidence that Bruce has at least tried - in the last 6 weeks or so basically since he said “it’s time to stamp our authority” or whatever he said - to change from his premeditated defensive approach ( in some games more than others) and be a little more positive in approach, selection, and tactics....and I do think things have improved. But we are NEVER going to play possession (etc etc) football under Bruce ( and I must admit that in itself doesn’t bother me) and we are never going to be a side that tries to steamroller games.....Bruce like a lot of Managers no doubt is better informed than us lot as to the success ratio of holding slender leads rather than opening up and risking defeat..

So if I may, I’d offer some advice.....meant genuinely.

Decide now whether you are prepared to enjoy grit, effort, defensive organisation, team spirit, and the odd bit of clinical breakaway football/ some decent individual performances, etc, as long as we get results. Or whether you want something more. If it’s the latter I’m afraid you are going to have a very very unhappy season. 

Because he isn’t going anywhere this season, and for all the legitimate doubts and concerns we might regret it if he did now ( its late in the day to risk a new guy) and he IS getting results now.....there IS some decent play....there ARE reasons to look forward to the games, and we DO seem to have something of a good spirit in the squad.

So in my case I’ve taken those pluses, and those realities, and thought “ if I try hard can I make a case to myself to try and enjoy this ?” And at the moment (!) I can ! And it’s far nicer looking forward to tomorrow’s game than it was when I practically dreaded going !

In short I think I’m saying that although there is enough to criticise if one wanted to, there is enough at present IMO to feel at least reasonably ok about, also if one wants to.

 

i havent posted a lot...but have read many of the 100s of pages on this thread, and this is the best ive seen on this thread so far in my opinion

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 I feel your pain ! And I’m sure many others do. It’s been pretty horrible  at times.

I’ve shared and agreed with a lot of your complaints.

But I do think there IS evidence that Bruce has at least tried - in the last 6 weeks or so basically since he said “it’s time to stamp our authority” or whatever he said - to change from his premeditated defensive approach ( in some games more than others) and be a little more positive in approach, selection, and tactics....and I do think things have improved. But we are NEVER going to play possession (etc etc) football under Bruce ( and I must admit that in itself doesn’t bother me) and we are never going to be a side that tries to steamroller games.....Bruce like a lot of Managers no doubt is better informed than us lot as to the success ratio of holding slender leads rather than opening up and risking defeat..

So if I may, I’d offer some advice.....meant genuinely.

Decide now whether you are prepared to enjoy grit, effort, defensive organisation, team spirit, and the odd bit of clinical breakaway football/ some decent individual performances, etc, as long as we get results. Or whether you want something more. If it’s the latter I’m afraid you are going to have a very very unhappy season. 

Because he isn’t going anywhere this season, and for all the legitimate doubts and concerns we might regret it if he did now ( its late in the day to risk a new guy) and he IS getting results now.....there IS some decent play....there ARE reasons to look forward to the games, and we DO seem to have something of a good spirit in the squad.

So in my case I’ve taken those pluses, and those realities, and thought “ if I try hard can I make a case to myself to try and enjoy this ?” And at the moment (!) I can ! And it’s far nicer looking forward to tomorrow’s game than it was when I practically dreaded going !

In short I think I’m saying that although there is enough to criticise if one wanted to, there is enough at present IMO to feel at least reasonably ok about, also if one wants to.

 

Brilliant rendition.....exactly where i am at.

I want to see the football that GH wants to see and you are right in what you say Terry, he is not wrong for wanting it.

but we have to be practical.

Nothing is exactly the same it never is, but we have had teams in the past that have secured results like this.....not everyone was at ease with John Gregory's style......Martin didn't give the season ticket Holders that many wins, but tickled the bellies of the away fans......our finest 90 odd minutes , was backs to the wall, but who would be brave enough to challenge that style on the day against one of Europes top teams.

I still don't think we have stopped improving yet, some players have still only had  a dozen games with us and are still getting to know one another to a degree.

I remember, when Ipswich with their flamboyant team beat us 3 times in a season, twice at home and that attracted some doubters to our worth as champions.....but when Shankly said any team that wins 26 games in a season deserves the title, the jealousy subsided and sense kicked in.....oh and we didn't know what a substitute was in those days, no team will ever do it with 14 players.... I digress.

UTV

Edited November 3, 2017 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

40 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

oo shuddering at the thought

Perfectly happy with my girlfriend thnx

Respect ,Gh , holding your own like the trooper you are .

[Grasshopper]

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 I feel your pain ! And I’m sure many others do. It’s been pretty horrible  at times.

I’ve shared and agreed with a lot of your complaints.  

thnx

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

But I do think there IS evidence that Bruce has at least tried - in the last 6 weeks or so basically since he said “it’s time to stamp our authority” or whatever he said - to change from his premeditated defensive approach ( in some games more than others) and be a little more positive in approach, selection, and tactics....and I do think things have improved.  

point and pov taken - not enough for me

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

But we are NEVER going to play possession (etc etc) football under Bruce ( and I must admit that in itself doesn’t bother me) and we are never going to be a side that tries to steamroller games.....Bruce like a lot of Managers no doubt is better informed than us lot as to the success ratio of holding slender leads rather than opening up and risking defeat..  

as frustrating as that is. And the concern that it wont be enough

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

So if I may, I’d offer some advice.....meant genuinely.

Decide now whether you are prepared to enjoy grit, effort, defensive organisation, team spirit, and the odd bit of clinical breakaway football/ some decent individual performances, etc, as long as we get results. Or whether you want something more. If it’s the latter I’m afraid you are going to have a very very unhappy season.  

Well I‘m in a position of choice. I don‘t have a season ticket, so my pleasure isn’t pre-paid. I can only get to a few games a season (if that) so my „game day“ is not taken up by travel there and back and the 90+mins of play, I‘m spoilt in that I can switch on/off my attention for the 2hrs. So do I really have to adapt my enjoyment threshold accordingly? when there‘s other things in life to enjoy on that day?

I think it was HfV who posted (maybe in jest) that his life was unfulfilling. I replied that mine was fulfilling (not in jest) I got a #humblebrag reply from ??? (which I thought was apt & funny) someone else took it all far too seriously and it all escalated. Bruce‘s hoofball really isn‘t the secret of my life‘s happiness or lack of it

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Because he isn’t going anywhere this season, and for all the legitimate doubts and concerns we might regret it if he did now ( its late in the day to risk a new guy) and he IS getting results now.....there IS some decent play....there ARE reasons to look forward to the games, and we DO seem to have something of a good spirit in the squad.  

You have been the staunchest of „I‘ve only ever seen 3x 45‘s worthy“

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

So in my case I’ve taken those pluses, and those realities, and thought “ if I try hard can I make a case to myself to try and enjoy this ?” And at the moment (!) I can ! And it’s far nicer looking forward to tomorrow’s game than it was when I practically dreaded going !  

good for you, your ST may be the leaning point to chance your expectations

38 minutes ago, terrytini said:

In short I think I’m saying that although there is enough to criticise if one wanted to, there is enough at present IMO to feel at least reasonably ok about, also if one wants to.

 

true if ok fits for the individual

[Grasshopper]

57 minutes ago, TRO said:

Brilliant rendition.....exactly where i am at.  

Yes a cracking post no question

Quote

I want to see the football that GH wants to see and you are right in what you say Terry, he is not wrong for wanting it.

but we have to be practical.

Nothing is exactly the same it never is, but we have had teams in the past that have secured results like this.....not everyone was at ease with John Gregory's style......  

I distictly remember JG coming in and with having what we had (also very familiar to him) he just got on with it and got us into europe (iirc)

He continued with his pragmatic was untill the 2-1 away defeat to S‘land. he tried changing from 3-5-2 to 4-4-2 we looked great,  however, we got exposed and lost the game.

After that I felt he was fighting against his own will to be more adventurous and the sideshow with Doug slowly took over - I personally think the BB signing started JG’s slide, GT coming in not being able to save it all.

Quote

Martin didn't give the season ticket Holders that many wins, but tickled the bellies of the away fans......our finest 90 odd minutes , was backs to the wall, but who would be brave enough to challenge that style on the day against one of Europes top teams. 

Regarding „our finest hour“ I really don‘t think we sat back and let it all happen. BM were just too good on the ball on the day and I think the players didn‘t buckle, they had it tough but never gave up, had a go and it paid off with one converted chance.

Quote

I still don't think we have stopped improving yet, some players have still only had  a dozen games with us and are still getting to know one another to a degree.

I remember, when Ipswich with their flamboyant team beat us 3 times in a season, twice at home and that attracted some doubters to our worth as champions.....but when Shankly said any team that wins 26 games in a season deserves the title, the jealousy subsided and sense kicked in.....oh and we didn't know what a substitute was in those days, no team will ever do it with 14 players.... I digress.

UTV

yes we digress

Edited November 3, 2017 by Grasshopper

[terrytini]

I get all that GH, as long as you don’t get your life dragged own by it what’s the worry as you say.

Like you I’m lucky to be extraordinarily happy and fulfilled in life, but unlike you I DO have a ST but perhaps more relevantly I love going to watch us, Home and Away and despite having a lot of other interests and fun nothing us quite the same as watching us ( doesn’t mean we are the best thing, but it’s unique !!) - so for me finding a way to enjoy it has been crucial !!

As for the point about “ Ive only seen three good games under Bruce” - you are right, I have, but what I’m seeing lately is - other than Wolves - an improvement, and 2 of those decent games were Burton and Preston, which are indeed recent !!

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

thnx

but there are 24 hrs a day in which I get to do other nice things in life. It would be nice if AVFCs football could  complete the set (of all things in life that can make one happy)

But maybe I dont need it as much as others who are less fortunate in life.

But you seem to spend 16 hours a day on here moaning

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Eastie

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 hours ago, tomav84 said:

anyone who wins promotion deserves a crack...players and managers. i often cite bournemouth in this situation, they are still playing with a lot of the players from the championship and even league 1 days cause they gave them a shot and largely have delivered

But Bournemouth walked the Championship playing brilliant football. Complete contrast to this villa team. 

[Eastie]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

But Bournemouth walked the Championship playing brilliant football. Complete contrast to this villa team. 

Not quite walked it - there were 20 games they didn’t win .

[Grasshopper]

4 minutes ago, Eastie said:

But you seem to spend 16 hours a day on here moaning ;

 

now now, dont exaggerate. I‘ve only been here 6months, the seasons only just started, the hysteria is 25/8 and I‘ve only spent money on Kebabs

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

Not quite walked it - there were 20 games they didn’t win .

I think I'm confusing them with another team that won the league comfortably. I just can't remember who it was! 

I remember Bmouth. Scored a lot of goals though. 

[Eastie]

Just now, Grasshopper said:

now now, dont exaggerate. I‘ve only been here 6months, the seasons only just started, the hysteria is 25/8 and I‘ve only spent money on Kebabs

I hope Brucey didn’t beat you to the last kebab - it would explain a lot you old rascal

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

oo shuddering at the thought

Perfectly happy with my girlfriend thnx

You "Oak" 

Edited November 3, 2017 by TRO

[AJ]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

If Steve Bruce can't please you.....perhaps he should send his wife round.

Maybe Steve should tag along too?

Manager trois?

[BigJim]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And I don't think it bothers most Villa fans. It certainly doesn't bother me.

I think we all knew when we hired Bruce that we weren't going to get free flowing, attacking, tiki taka football. What a lot of us thought we would get is direct but effective football that would bring results.

The problem has been that until this recent run of form, we've had BOTH a lack of "good" football AND results (or at least results good enough to get promoted.

 

If our current run of form continue then I couldn't care less if we win every game 1-0 with one shot on target.

IF he gets results, then Bruce can play however the **** he likes, imo.

Most people are happy as long as the results are coming. I get that. I'm thoroughly enjoying the wins myself, much as I'd like to see them achieved with a little more style. It feels good to be in the top 6, no matter how we got there.

What worries me is your IFs.  I happen to think he won't keep getting results unless he improves the way we play in possession, especially in the final third.  It's been worrying me for a long time now, and I no longer think he is able to change it.

Hope I'm wrong obviously.    During one of our promotion seasons many moons ago, after a dour 1-0 away victory, the opposing manager said something to the effect that he'd rather sweep the streets than ask his team to play like we did. Sour grapes, of course, but I think I understand him better now.   

 

[briny_ear]

40 minutes ago, AJ said:

Manager trois?

I see what you did there.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

But you seem to spend 16 hours a day on here moaning

 

You only think it's 16 hours because you obviously sleep for the other 8 so  miss the full 24/7 operation.