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2 hours ago, sidcow said:

Today is exactly what I was fearing when I wrote this. 

At home against a poor Wednesday team we should have comfortably won.

A team in form and being really convincing would not have a team like that beat them easily at home. 

We are just not convincing and I have little faith we will have a good reaction to this either. 

Why the hell did he leave it so late to make the last change? We were so obviously going to lose unless something dramatic was to change. 

When was the last time we had a consistent period of sustained pressure in the opponent's half especially around the penalty box.......

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5 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

When was the last time we had a consistent period of sustained pressure in the opponent's half especially around the penalty box.......

That's exactly my point.  If we did I would feel we really were good. But we don't and whilst stumbling through a series of results we are still a team who can get stuffed at home by a team like Wednesday.

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2 hours ago, VillaCas said:

No TRO this is totally wrong - you can’t just  lump managers into a group just because you’ve never heard of them

Wagner is a one-off and was getable for us if we’d really gone for it - if we had I’m convinced that we would be in the PL by now

Bruce won’t be taking us up this season and deep down you know it - we’ve got enough quality players to be in or around the playoffs and that’s about it

I think you are wrong on both counts.....the players are not technically good enough to be free of their opponent, they struggle to pass and move and are second best to most aerial ball particularly in the middle of the park, so no i disagree.

I am lumping in to a group of managers who have found success.....it is easy to be wise after the event.

both Wagner and Santo never had particularly ground breaking success before huddersfield and wolves, so it was a bit of a gamble for both those clubs....if wolves were so wise, why has it taken them this long?.....no i was not aware of either of them, why would i be?

I don't know whether SB will or won't take us up and I appreciate all the criticism, but i have doubts about your other claim that the players are good enough.in a rounded sense, i don't think they are.

The play offs might be as good as it gets any further aspirations i think is fanciful.

There are too many aspects of poor play individually and collectivelly for us to get ahead of ourselves.

despite todays early goal, which had an effect, but maybe it shouldn't have, we were woeful in so many aspects of the game.

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5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you are wrong on both counts.....the players are not technically good enough to be free of their opponent, they struggle to pass and move and are second best to most aerial ball particularly in the middle of the park, so no i disagree.

I am lumping in to a group of managers who have found success.....it is easy to be wise after the event.

both Wagner and Santo never had particularly ground breaking success before huddersfield and wolves, so it was a bit of a gamble for both those clubs....if wolves were so wise, why has it taken them this long?.....no i was not aware of either of them, why would i be?

I don't know whether SB will or won't take us up and I appreciate all the criticism, but i have doubts about your other claim that the players are good enough.in a rounded sense, i don't think they are.

The play offs might be as good as it gets any further aspirations i think is fanciful.

There are too many aspects of poor play individually and collectivelly for us to get ahead of ourselves.

despite todays early goal, which had an effect, but maybe it shouldn't have, we were woeful in so many aspects of the game.

I think you have severely misunderstood on several counts

firstly, as you well know because we’ve have many similar discussions, I wanted Wagner before we got RDM and even more so before freakin Steve Bruce - so wise after the event is totally wrong

secondly, we have some quality PL players, some top loaners, some record breaking championship signings so under a better Manager, of course our players are easily good enough for automatic promotion - the fact we are not and won’t be in that position is totally down to Bruce

I struggle to understand the rest of your points which seem to add to my argument that Bruce is not good enough rather than yours that he is?

finally, how does what wolves do or don’t do have anything to do with this? I could absolutely care less

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I'm fed up of this sh*t. We had Barry f**king Bannan ruining the show against us today because he actually had players that moved to recieve a pass. 

I'm not being fooled again by the odd good result. There is not a chance in hell we are getting promoted under this manager. He will be gone at the end of the season as well half of the squad. We're looking at a complete rebuild which could involve several years in this league. 

This is not just a knee jerk reaction from today's game. This is after seeing the inevitable happen today because all of the problems of last season have not been fully addressed! 

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12 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I think you have severely misunderstood on several counts

firstly, as you well know because we’ve have many similar discussions, I wanted Wagner before we got RDM and even more so before freakin Steve Bruce - so wise after the event is totally wrong

secondly, we have some quality PL players, some top loaners, some record breaking championship signings so under a better Manager, of course our players are easily good enough for automatic promotion - the fact we are not and won’t be in that position is totally down to Bruce

I struggle to understand the rest of your points which seem to add to my argument that Bruce is not good enough rather than yours that he is?

finally, how does what wolves do or don’t do have anything to do with this? I could absolutely care less

Firstly, i have not severely done anything.

  • how can you be sure Wagner would have repeated with us what he has done at Huddersfield?.....bearing in mind he only went up in the play offs...but even so he could have failed with us, different club, different obstacles, different results.
  • I think our players have good points and not so good points....the team lack pace in general and do not pass and move anywhere near enough....they are so easy to close down and equally find it difficult to close down the opposition.
  • The team in general are predictable and slow to react....they are rarely proactive.
  • players gravitate to defence, mainly due to not winning their individual battles and retreating.

I accept that the manager has to take responsibilty.....but we are an outfit that can throw up a game like today, so unexpectedly.

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36 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you are wrong on both counts.....the players are not technically good enough to be free of their opponent, they struggle to pass and move and are second best to most aerial ball particularly in the middle of the park, so no i disagree.

I am lumping in to a group of managers who have found success.....it is easy to be wise after the event.

both Wagner and Santo never had particularly ground breaking success before huddersfield and wolves, so it was a bit of a gamble for both those clubs....if wolves were so wise, why has it taken them this long?.....no i was not aware of either of them, why would i be?

I don't know whether SB will or won't take us up and I appreciate all the criticism, but i have doubts about your other claim that the players are good enough.in a rounded sense, i don't think they are.

The play offs might be as good as it gets any further aspirations i think is fanciful.

There are too many aspects of poor play individually and collectivelly for us to get ahead of ourselves.

despite todays early goal, which had an effect, but maybe it shouldn't have, we were woeful in so many aspects of the game.

Santo got Valencia to top 4. I think that's a pretty big pedigree of manager for the Championship. 

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14 minutes ago, KHV said:

He **** up today. 

Taking a man from the middle of the park and playing Hogan was idiotic

Hindsight is wonderful. Last time out he got lambasted for being cowardly and playing 5 in midfield at home. 

A lot of people (me included) were happy to see Hogan given a go with Davis, read the pre match thread. 

However yes with hindsight it was an error. 

I think he should have taken Hogan off and gone 5 in midfield after they went 2 up. I would've brought Grealish on right then for him as it was so clearly not working. 

I will give huge criticism to Bruce for when he eventually did bring Jack on also then putting Samba up front.  We started to lump it up to him,  natural temptation.  Should have seen how Jack could have affected the game without the stellar change of Samba up front along him. 

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Hogan shouldn't have started. Said that in pre match thread. Was actually suprised by how many fans were happy by his selection. I thought you lot knew what you were talking about! ;)

I think Bruce selected Hogan because of Vtalk. He has been spending too much time on here. It's why O'Hare went from no sub appearance to 50 minutes in the space of 2 games. 

FAN POWER!!

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think you are wrong on both counts.....the players are not technically good enough to be free of their opponent, they struggle to pass and move and are second best to most aerial ball particularly in the middle of the park, so no i disagree.

I am lumping in to a group of managers who have found success.....it is easy to be wise after the event.

both Wagner and Santo never had particularly ground breaking success before huddersfield and wolves, so it was a bit of a gamble for both those clubs....if wolves were so wise, why has it taken them this long?.....no i was not aware of either of them, why would i be?

I don't know whether SB will or won't take us up and I appreciate all the criticism, but i have doubts about your other claim that the players are good enough.in a rounded sense, i don't think they are.

The play offs might be as good as it gets any further aspirations i think is fanciful.

There are too many aspects of poor play individually and collectivelly for us to get ahead of ourselves.

despite todays early goal, which had an effect, but maybe it shouldn't have, we were woeful in so many aspects of the game.

Most players have played a better standard and style before Bruce so why are they not performing now? Just from today did Hourihane decide to push on in the 2nd half on his own or was he playing under orders in both halfs? Bruce only plays people who does the job he wants. He picks the team. He picks the tactics. 

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1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I'm fed up of this sh*t. We had Barry f**king Bannan ruining the show against us today because he actually had players that moved to recieve a pass. 

I'm not being fooled again by the odd good result. There is not a chance in hell we are getting promoted under this manager. He will be gone at the end of the season as well half of the squad. We're looking at a complete rebuild which could involve several years in this league. 

This is not just a knee jerk reaction from today's game. This is after seeing the inevitable happen today because all of the problems of last season have not been fully addressed! 

Our lack of movement means we should always play with an extra midfielder. Wednesday played 442 but played it with people moving around. We do it with a flat 4 playing wide and it gets exposed every time. We played with 2 up top and 2 wingers yet neither winger goes outside and crosses so the strikers never get a chance to attack a ball. Why not swap the wings about if it's not working? We did it loads under ONeill. Is it because Snodgrass doesn't want to play left side? Elmo isn't a RB yet he persists with him a short he knows him but to me he's a weak character with no fight. Hutton isn't a left back he does ok but you need balance and not having a left foot on the left hampers us. We've not got a pattern of play to fall back on when it's not clicking and like after Xmas last year we could easily go on a winless run because of it. 

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Got it horribly wrong today and it's not a surprise. You have to look very hard for any good performances in the ~year he's been in charge. Doesn't do tactics and must use dice or a roulette wheel to make his substitutions. I can't wait to see the back him to be honest. 

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With Terry missing I will be amazed if he doesn't start playing 4-3-3 again but this time with Jedinak partnering Whelan in front of the back four, to give more protection. If he does this it will be at the sacrifice of a more attack-minded player and will inevitably lead to less chances.

Please prove me wrong Brucie and let our players attack, after all, it is supposed to be the best form of defence!

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Firstly, i have not severely done anything.

  • how can you be sure Wagner would have repeated with us what he has done at Huddersfield?.....bearing in mind he only went up in the play offs...but even so he could have failed with us, different club, different obstacles, different results.
  • I think our players have good points and not so good points....the team lack pace in general and do not pass and move anywhere near enough....they are so easy to close down and equally find it difficult to close down the opposition.
  • The team in general are predictable and slow to react....they are rarely proactive.
  • players gravitate to defence, mainly due to not winning their individual battles and retreating.

I accept that the manager has to take responsibilty.....but we are an outfit that can throw up a game like today, so unexpectedly.

 You might not  know for surehow Wagner would have done but I’m confident it would be a damn sight better than Bruce

The rest of your comments prove my point that Bruce has got the whole set up wrong, not yours. 

I’m fed up with the whole thing to be honest - we’re stuck in this division for years

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33 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Most players have played a better standard and style before Bruce so why are they not performing now? Just from today did Hourihane decide to push on in the 2nd half on his own or was he playing under orders in both halfs? Bruce only plays people who does the job he wants. He picks the team. He picks the tactics. 

Well he was probably too far forward when adam reach scored........the gap between him and whelan and john terry was too big......its about having awareness of your position in relation to the opposition.

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2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

When was the last time we had a consistent period of sustained pressure in the opponent's half especially around the penalty box.......

Were just one paced and predictable

 

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11 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

 You might not  know for surehow Wagner would have done but I’m confident it would be a damn sight better than Bruce

The rest of your comments prove my point that Bruce has got the whole set up wrong, not yours. 

I’m fed up with the whole thing to be honest - we’re stuck in this division for years

When we started the game there was nothing wrong with the set up., with the exception of playing injured players.....but players have to do their jobs.....and they didn't.

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6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well he was probably too far forward when adam reach scored........the gap between him and whelan and john terry was too big......its about having awareness of your position in relation to the opposition.

No offence mate but, I think the players need cutting some slack for that first goal. 

1) It was just 17 seconds into the game, so players wouldn't have had time to settle into positions. 

2) It was an amazing goal - probably the best the player will ever score.

I think sometimes we just have to applaud what was a sensational goal and give the scorer credit where due. 

My biggest problem is that we couldn't turn the game around in the next 90+ minutes of play. 

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