Steve Bruce

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I think Bruce is man-managing this personally. Grealish was buzzing coming back into pre-season which he states. The lad has suffered a nasty and very unfortunately timed injury. He is probably proper gutted right now. 

I think these comments are a public 'arm round the shoulder' of grealish who strikes me as the type of player that needs that. A sort of, when you're back fit again Jack, work you're arse off and there's a place in the team for you. 

Certainly not 'excuses' already. Not for me. I suppose we all look at things differently and with differing mentalities though. 

Its nothing to do with mentalities, it's about opinions on Bruce, these comments and pre-season. I hate all this positive/negative  stuff.

[dn1982]

FFS there's some really negative people on here who jump on Bruce at the slightest thing. We all want us to go more atracking so setting up 4231 is a start. Most think Grealish is a good number 10 so is it a surprise when he gets injured Bruce mentions it? We've been playing that formation virtually all pre season so if the person you earmarked to be in the pivotal role gets injured it's stating fact not making excuses. I'm sure SB knows he has to get us up so no excuses will be accepted regardless. If you look at his comments today he says that other kids will have to step up. He never says Jack was the be all and end all. I'm no where near Bruces biggest fan and after last year he has a lot to do to get me to believe he will succeed but jumping on him over these innocuous comments is baffling. 

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, KJT123 said:

Almost sounds like... he's getting his excuses in already?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/injury-update-bad-news-aston-13417286

Crikey given some of the comments in here I wondered what I was going to be reading when I opened that link.

And then I find it was pretty much nothing other than bigging up a young player who thrives on that arm round the shoulder and confidence boost especially at a time when he has suffered a very nasty injury by the sounds of it.

Bruce didn't present his absence as a possible excuse going forward. The final quote from him was quite the opposite " So that’s a bit of a disappointment for us but that’s football"

Seems fair enough as it is a disappointment. Any player in your plans being out for over 3 months is going to be a disappointment. As he said though that's football and that final quote tells me no excuses will be made off the back of this or Kodjia being out, or Jedinak or whoever else gets injured. Bruce knows he has to achieve promotion and both he and his captain have stated that so you can assume that runs throughout the squad and they all know excuses, or what if's, won't be tolerated.

Edited August 1, 2017 by markavfc40

[wazzap24]

7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Playing Grealish has nothing to do with promoting youth, absolutely nothing.

And yes, I think he is making excuses.

He is saying pre season has been all about building a team around Grealish yet pre season games really haven't given any real indication that was the case.

It is quite easy to see why people think he is getting excuses in early, they are such negative comments from Bruce.

He has signed Whelan, Elmo, Hourihane and Lansbury yet we are supposed to believe the whole team is built around Grealish. 

Yes losing Grealish is a blow but given the above and the other resources at his disposal I don't think these sort of comments should be coming from him.

He should be saying something like 'Yes it's a blow, he has been great in pre season and he was a big part of my plans but we've got plenty of really good players...' etc etc.

That he isn't doing this, that he has said what he has said smacks of getting excuses in before he season starts to cover himself if the results aren't good.

The resources he has and has signed, losing one player especially one who frankly has been so in capable of producing on a regular basis, shouldn't be that big of a blow.

 

As soon as he was back from Eng duty, he was in the side, in the final in Germany and started against Watford. As a number 10. It's not a leap to say that's how he was looking to set up. 

He said he came back flying "which was good to see" - he was obviously looking at putting his faith in the kid and giving him a run. He's a 21 year old academy graduate, who could be described as talented, but inconsistent and with no set position. Not the kind of player you'd expect to be key under Bruce? Plus he has his own picks, who could easily have replaced him. That's not about giving talented youth a chance? I don't agree.

"That's a bit of a disappointment, but that's football" - ok he could have used your words, but really? The whole article contains about 3 complete sentences and we've managed to squeeze negativity and making excuses out of it? It's reaching pretty hard for a negative imo.

We need the season to start, with no games and no likely signings before Saturday, we are down to debating snippets of his interviews in the local rag. People have taken their positions and that's that. Only time will tell. 

 

[dn1982]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Crikey given some of the comments in here I wondered what I was going to be reading when I opened that link.

And then I find it was pretty much nothing other than bigging up a young player who thrives on that arm round the shoulder and confidence boost especially at a time when he has suffered a very nasty injury by the sounds of it.

Bruce didn't present his absence as a possible excuse going forward. The final quote from him was quite the opposite " So that’s a bit of a disappointment for us but that’s football"

Seems fair enough as it is a disappointment. Any player in your plans being out for over 3 months is going to be a disappointment. As he said though that's football and that final quote tells me no excuses will be made off the back of this or Kodjia being out, or Jedinak or whoever else gets injured. Bruce knows he has to achieve promotion and both he and his captain have stated that so you can assume that runs throughout the squad and they all know excuses, or what if's, won't be tolerated.

In the Talksport interview he even mentions how well some of the kids have done and he'll be looking for some one to step up but that doesn't fit with the narrative. 

[GENTLEMAN]

21 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

I'm not getting the reaction to Bruce's comments about Grealish. 

Criticised because he doesn't promote youth and doesn't put his faith in attacking players. 

Says he was trying to build a team around the brightest academy talent in recent years. He's making excuses. 

I cannot in anyway see how the comments in that article are an attempt to downplay expectation or make excuses for something that hasn't even happened. 

He is given an unfair shake because of his past, I get the impression some people are ready to seize upon anything to want him out. For me, there is nothing in those comments relating to excuses. Grealish is a big player for us, and Bruce seems to have decided to play him as a support striker/attacking midfielder in the centre  of (4-2-3-1). He would of started against Hull IMO, it is a blow but I am sure he will be aiding us in the closing months of the season (likewise Kodjia too).

[TrentVilla]

6 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

In the Talksport interview he even mentions how well some of the kids have done and he'll be looking for some one to step up but that doesn't fit with the narrative. 

Nothing to do with a 'narrative' people are commenting on the article quoted linked, most of whom myself included won't have seen the Talksport one. Feel free to share it.

People can then pass comment on that, as it is they will pass comment on the one they have seen.

And there is no narrative, just football fans expressing their opinion.

[alreadyexists]

I couldn't care less what he says... if he loses games he should be out, if he wins games he should stay. There is nothing else in it for me. No realt loyalty to the man, and we owe him nothing in terms of that. I'm not going to waste my time worrying about some of the cuff comment, if we've lost the first 6 games I'll be very worried, but until some actual football happens, I don't think I'll bother.

[TrentVilla]

25 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

As soon as he was back from Eng duty, he was in the side, in the final in Germany and started against Watford. As a number 10. It's not a leap to say that's how he was looking to set up. 

He said he came back flying "which was good to see" - he was obviously looking at putting his faith in the kid and giving him a run. He's a 21 year old academy graduate, who could be described as talented, but inconsistent and with no set position. Not the kind of player you'd expect to be key under Bruce? Plus he has his own picks, who could easily have replaced him. That's not about giving talented youth a chance? I don't agree.

"That's a bit of a disappointment, but that's football" - ok he could have used your words, but really? The whole article contains about 3 complete sentences and we've managed to squeeze negativity and making excuses out of it? It's reaching pretty hard for a negative imo.

We need the season to start, with no games and no likely signings before Saturday, we are down to debating snippets of his interviews in the local rag. People have taken their positions and that's that. Only time will tell. 

 

You said 'promoting youth' under absolutely no circumstances can Bruce playing Grealish be classed as that.

Now you've changed it to giving talented youth a chance. They aren't the same thing. Nobody can claim Bruce promoted Grealish to the team.

As for the rest of your post, wvwry set of comments from Bruce no matter how brief rare going to be commented on by people on here, just as they would with any manager.

And no it's not about people having taken positions. It's people giving their opinions, right or wrong, on what the manager has said.

Personally I'm dissapointed with what he has said, I'm dissapointed with what I've seen from the team in terms of their performances this summer. Yet I think he has made some good signings in difficult circumstances.

But I also think he signed some good players in January, the problem is to date he hasn't managed to get anything even remotely close to their best out them. That is a concern for me especially given there hasn't really been an improvement in this respect this summer, some of his January acquisitions can't even get in the side.

I defended Bruce through last season but I've growing doubts about him this summer, we will see what happens from next week.

I think there are very few people who have a set position of wanting him out, I think there is a lot of people, myself included that are far from convinced at this moment in time.

[TrentVilla]

14 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

He is given an unfair shake because of his past, I get the impression some people are ready to seize upon anything to want him out. For me, there is nothing in those comments relating to excuses. Grealish is a big player for us, and Bruce seems to have decided to play him as a support striker/attacking midfielder in the centre  of (4-2-3-1). He would of started against Hull IMO, it is a blow but I am sure he will be aiding us in the closing months of the season (likewise Kodjia too).

What because he was at Small Heath? Come off it.

[markavfc40]

Just reading this thread I am glad the season is starting now as we are down to just regurgitating the same old arguments based on last seasons results and performances and now nit picking trivial comments from the manager and coming up with all sorts of interpretations.

I personally think we will be a completely different animal this season. We have done some great business over the summer. Terry and Whelan not only vastly improve the side based on their own ability but improve the side due to what they can bring out in the players around them. Elmohamady has also shown at this level he can excel and I expect a change of scenery, playing at the biggest club he has played for under a manager who has shown he can get the best out of him will see him do very well for us.

I got to be honest I am supremely confident. A manager with a fantastic record for getting promotion out of this division, the best captain of his generation leading us on the pitch and a cracking mix of experience, young and hungry to play at the top level and no shortage of ability means for me we have the best set up in this league. I can't wait for the season to kick off and for us to hopefully prove that my confidence is well placed

[wazzap24]

3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

You said 'promoting youth' under absolutely no circumstances can Bruce playing Grealish be classed as that.

Now you've changed it or giving talented youth a chance. They aren't the same thing.

As for the rest of your post, wvwry set of comments from Bruce no matter how brief rare going to be commented on by people on here, just as they would with any manager.

And no it's not about people having taken positions. It's people giving their opinions, right or wrong, on what the manager has said.

Personally I'm dissapointed with what he has said, I'm dissapointed with what I've seen from the team in terms of their performances this summer. Yet I think he has made some good signings in difficult circumstances.

But I also think he signed some good players in January, the problem is to date he hasn't managed to get anything even remotely close to their best out them. That is a concern for me especially given there hasn't really been an improvement in this respect this summer, some of his January acquisitions can't even get in the side.

I defended Bruce through last season but I've growing doubts about him this summer, we will see what happens from next week.

I think there are very few people who have a set position of wanting him out, I think there is a lot of people, myself included that are far from convinced at this moment in time.

Ok, we disagree. I don't see much difference between 'promoting youth' and 'giving talented youth a chance'. 

Already in the first team squad or not, he's a 21 'kid' with a sketchy record and Bruce was going to give him a run (going by his comments at least). Playing him ahead of older, more experienced, maybe even harder working players and ahead of his own signings. I don't know what else you want me to call it other than promoting/picking/playing youth ahead of older more experienced players?!  

As for positions, it might be the wrong choice of word, but they are an obvious consequence of having an opinion in the first place! 

You have a different overall opinion to me on Bruce, therefore we will see things he says and does differently. People do take a 'position' or view on something, then naturally interpret things based on that. We take a different view on this article because of previous opinions we have built up. Our perception. Sometimes anything against them is dismissed, because it doesn't 'fit' the view we hold or we look for things to reaffirm our POV. That's all I meant. Wherever you stand right now on Bruce, it just feels like this article has been picked up on by a few who aren't overly enthused by the manager for the sake of a dig? Just my opinion. 

 

[wazzap24]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 

I got to be honest I am supremely confident. 

I'm on that train. In first class. 

Bring.it.on

[TrentVilla]

16 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Ok, we disagree. I don't see much difference between 'promoting youth' and 'giving talented youth a chance'. 

Already in the first team squad or not, he's a 21 'kid' with a sketchy record and Bruce was going to give him a run (going by his comments at least). Playing him ahead of older, more experienced, maybe even harder working players and ahead of his own signings. I don't know what else you want me to call it other than promoting/picking/playing youth ahead of older more experienced players?!  

As for positions, it might be the wrong choice of word, but they are an obvious consequence of having an opinion in the first place! 

You have a different overall opinion to me on Bruce, therefore we will see things he says and does differently. People do take a 'position' or view on something, then naturally interpret things based on that. We take a different view on this article because of previous opinions we have built up. Our perception. Sometimes anything against them is dismissed, because it doesn't 'fit' the view we hold or we look for things to reaffirm our POV. That's all I meant. Wherever you stand right now on Bruce, it just feels like this article has been picked up on by a few who aren't overly enthused by the manager for the sake of a dig? Just my opinion. 

 

We do disagree, there is a marked difference between the two. You tried to use Grealish as an example of Bruce promoting youth.

I like many other people are perfectly capable of being objective about things as they occur, irrespective of the base opinion of Bruce.

It is an odd characteristic of this site that only those being positive about something are deemed to have perspective or be capable of objectivity, it's not the case.

That isn't a point soecifically about your post, just a general theme and undertone that is present in so many discussions.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Lets face it unless we win games Bruce is damned no matter what he does. Nature of the sport.  Points on the board and all is soon forgiven.

[TrentVilla]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Lets face it unless we win games Bruce is damned no matter what he does. Nature of the sport.  Points on the board and all is soon forgiven.

To an extent yes.

This season is all about getting enough wins to get up, nothing more.

The only concern I have over how we play is if it will be effective enough to achieve the above. The misconception is that criticism about how we play is about entertainment when I don't think that is most people's issue.

We will soon find out I guess.

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

To an extent yes.

This season is all about getting enough wins to get up, nothing more.

The only concern I have over how we play is if it will be effective enough to achieve the above. The misconception is that criticism about how we play is about entertainment when I don't think that is most people's issue.

We will soon find out I guess.

I agree the issue is playing defensive and poorly and also not getting a result. But I don't think being more attacking would guarantee results either. 

I've said before I don't think it will be pretty but I do think it will be effective. Similar to how Newcastle were last season.  

I even think we'll see a lot more goals from set peices. Something we've massively lacked for years! 

[wazzap24]

32 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

We do disagree, there is a marked difference between the two. You tried to use Grealish as an example of Bruce promoting youth.

I like many other people are perfectly capable of being objective about things as they occur, irrespective of the base opinion of Bruce.

It is an odd characteristic of this site that only those being positive about something are deemed to have perspective or be capable of objectivity, it's not the case.

That isn't a point soecifically about your post, just a general theme and undertone that is present in so many discussions.

Genuinely, I cannot see a marked difference. I'm not trying to be a word removed, but what is the real tangible difference between picking a young, homegrown, player ahead of others, regardless of them being a pick straight from the U21-s or already in the first team squad? Youth gets 'promoted' up to the squad/bench all the time, it's another step to become a regular starter. Bruce having the faith to pick Grealish is absolutely 'promoting' youth imo? I don't get how that's wrong, are we just arguing how it should be defined? 

I know you weren't being specific, but I'm happy to admit I'm not objective. A lot of my optimism is based on things I've yet to see, as are others. Maybe there is that characteristic, I only come into on topic in bursts, so I can't relate to the context. 

I don't think people are capable of being of completely objective Trent. This article is a prime example. 

Some people, like yourself, that currently hold a negative base view of Bruce have taken this article to be a negative and suggest he's looking to make excuses. 

Some people, like me, that currently hold a positive base view of Bruce, haven't taken it like that and think what he's said was fine. Hell, I'm even excited at the thought he was going to roll with Grealish at 10! 

You're not objective, I'm not objective, none of us are. We can be rational and change our minds, but most of the time we have a view one way or the other on all things Villa related. That's what it's all about. 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by wazzap24

[RimmyJimmer]

This really is the classic,  making a massive mountain out of the tiniest of mole hills.

I really cant understand what there is to be so negative about regarding that short article, I really dont.  

[AshVilla]

2 hours ago, villarocker said:

You can't build a system around one player anyway so that simply won't wash with the Villa faithful. We have plenty of players for all areas and he simply needs to get the best out of whoever plays where - no excuses this time.

He basically built the team around Kodija last season and we only managed midtable.

We need to be less negative and carry threats from other areas of the pitch. To get promoted our wide players and midfielders need to chip in with goals and plenty of assists and not just rely on Jimy Danger creating something from nothing.

Edited August 1, 2017 by AshVilla