Steve Bruce

[thabucks]

50 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I personally think this a load of nonsense, and if it were true he'd have lost the dressing room a long time ago.

Bruce should be criticised for not getting the players to play the way he wants them to.

Stuff like this shouldn't be invented though. I mean are you actually saying the team ARE playing how he wants them to play, yet he's still coming out to the media and saying they're not playing how he wants them to play to deflect blame from himself (consider he was saying the same things when we were winning games)

Do you not see how convoluted that is?

So you believe the performances from the players are from players who are 100% behind Bruce and his tactics and his methods? Is the dressing room truly behind him if so how do you know? 

And yes I am saying that as he has never been known as a pretty football, or possession based tactical type manager this is how he plays the game. He has had enough time and bought enough players of own to make a difference and if he truly wanted to change our  playing style. And yes i am saying he is paying lip service to the fans and playing the media game with his comments as it's what all managers do. Keeps the fans onside. Makes interesting sound bites and headlines. 

He has done wonders you can't deny at small clubs but this is his biggest job and he isn't up to the task. He isn't using or doesn't know how to utilise the players at his disposal. 

[USA_Villa]

I know I'm repeating myself again, but here's what I'm struggling with and why I believe Bruce needs to go:

1. We have scored 46 goals in 45 games. Not good enough
2. Thank goodness we have Kodija, otherwise I'd hate to think what the goal total would be
3. We are a really bad team playing really bad football. Although, when was the last time you heard someone say they want to play like a Steve Bruce team
4. Does anyone remember our form in January and February? We had one of the longest losing streaks in the clubs history
5. We have four wins on the trot and we forget about everything else. Don't look at the whole picture. It's not pretty
6. The fact that he is nowhere to be seen on the training field is very worrying. 
7. How much money did he spend?
8. We are paying Scott Hogan four times what he earned at Brentford in the same division. Dean Smith had him scoring goals, why not you Steve?
9. Lack of confidence - My lack of confidence that given further time he can turn this around. Show me something that I can hang my hat on here. Please don't say he's done it before, and look at his track record. Times have changed, Bruce hasn't, and likely never will.
10. We are likely to finish 12th. Bruce said his target was top 10. Well Stevie, you failed. You gave yourself the heady target of finishing on the top 10, and you couldn't even do that.
11. Would you give this guy another $20m to $30m of your own money to spend? I wouldn't looking at what he did with it in January.
12. Bruce and Villa are wearing me down. I'm tired of watching crap, and listening to the same excuses every week

Please pull this guy in to the office on Sunday afternoon and fire him and all his backroom staff as between them they have delivered nothing.

We need fresh ideas. I want to watch attractive football. I want to love my club again.

[pacbuddies]

I don't know about anyone else but in the 20+ years that Bruce has been a football manager I have never glanced favourably and enviously at any of his teams and thought 'they play a good brand of passing and attacking football I wish he was the Villa manager'.

Edited May 2, 2017 by pacbuddies

[blandy]

12 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

I don't know about anyone else but in the 20+ years that Bruce has been a football manager I have never glanced favourably and enviously at any of his teams and thought 'they play a good brand of passing and attacking football I wish he was the Villa manager'.

Me either. I didn't want him here, for many of the reasons mentioned in this thread...but, he is here now. We're in a kind of stick or twist dilemma. There are upsides and downsides to each course of action for the club.

Twist, get another manager, maybe better football, maybe better win percentage and so on. Risk we just repeat what we've been doing for 6 years - short term change the manager, spend on compensation, turn over more players, no continuity, no time to gel and settle.

Stick - allow for once the manager that's been chosen to have a decent period with players he wants to get everything how he wants it. I know its different to what we've been doing, and let's face it what we've been doing hasn't worked very well the past 6 years. Risk is he'll waste money (though I think he's bought well to date) and even with a pre-season the football will still be ropy and cumbersome, the results will still be mid table-ish.

For me the risk of changing is worse than that of sticking, and that's without considering that clubs that are forever changing manager always struggle. We've got to break the cycle of permanent turmoil at the club. Bruce might not be the answer, but the worse that'll happen in this league is another mid table finish if we stick with him.

We just got to chill a bit.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

Me either. I didn't want him here, for many of the reasons mentioned in this thread...but, he is here now. We're in a kind of stick or twist dilemma. There are upsides and downsides to each course of action for the club.

Twist, get another manager, maybe better football, maybe better win percentage and so on. Risk we just repeat what we've been doing for 6 years - short term change the manager, spend on compensation, turn over more players, no continuity, no time to gel and settle.

Stick - allow for once the manager that's been chosen to have a decent period with players he wants to get everything how he wants it. I know its different to what we've been doing, and let's face it what we've been doing hasn't worked very well the past 6 years. Risk is he'll waste money (though I think he's bought well to date) and even with a pre-season the football will still be ropy and cumbersome, the results will still be mid table-ish.

For me the risk of changing is worse than that of sticking, and that's without considering that clubs that are forever changing manager always struggle. We've got to break the cycle of permanent turmoil at the club. Bruce might not be the answer, but the worse that'll happen in this league is another mid table finish if we stick with him.

We just got to chill a bit.

I think another midtable finish in this league could be absolutely terrible for us long term. 

That for me is why I think it's more of a risk to stick than to change. 

I'm all for breaking the cycle but we've got to stick with someone who looks to be leading us in the right direction. Not just pray after 35 games that the one we've got might be. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

I don't know about anyone else but in the 20+ years that Bruce has been a football manager I have never glanced favourably and enviously at any of his teams and thought 'they play a good brand of passing and attacking football I wish he was the Villa manager'.

and the ones I have, have been out of our reach.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[DCJonah]

On the above argument of how we play and instructions, I think both scenarios reflect badly on Bruce. 

Either the players are playing how they're instructed and then bruce is openly critisicung them. Or after nearly a premier league season length of time his players play in a way he didn't instruct them to, showing a complete failure to get over the basic levels of coaching and then continues to criticise in the press. 

Like I said, both ways reflect very badly on this man. 

[pacbuddies]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

and the ones I have have, been out of our reach.

Not over the last 20+ years they haven't.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Not over the last 20+ years they haven't.

so where is the argument now, with the owners.

look forward, not back.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm all for breaking the cycle but we've got to stick with someone who looks to be leading us in the right direction. Not just pray after 35 games that the one we've got might be. 

I understand where you're coming from. I think I'm just kind of willing to give it a bit more time. I've posted earlier in the thread that I think it's the coaching more than the manager that's the problem, and that's why I'm not shouting for Bruce to go. I accept it's his job to get good coaches in and it seems that maybe he didn't quite get it right with Calderwood. But given he had to get a coach in mid season when it's hard to prise people away, and there are rules and so on to prevent it if the current club wants to stop it, I don't blame him much. So I think keep the manager for now and sort out the coaching is the best option of those available, really. Something has to change, that's for sure, the football is universally awful, low scoring, stodgy rubbish.

 

[sheepyvillian]

23 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

I don't know about anyone else but in the 20+ years that Bruce has been a football manager I have never glanced favourably and enviously at any of his teams and thought 'they play a good brand of passing and attacking football I wish he was the Villa manager'.

Enough said. 

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

I understand where you're coming from. I think I'm just kind of willing to give it a bit more time. I've posted earlier in the thread that I think it's the coaching more than the manager that's the problem, and that's why I'm not shouting for Bruce to go. I accept it's his job to get good coaches in and it seems that maybe he didn't quite get it right with Calderwood. But given he had to get a coach in mid season when it's hard to prise people away, and there are rules and so on to prevent it if the current club wants to stop it, I don't blame him much. So I think keep the manager for now and sort out the coaching is the best option of those available, really. Something has to change, that's for sure, the football is universally awful, low scoring, stodgy rubbish.

 

I just don't think it all comes down to one coach. Surely his coaching follows instructions from his manager and assistant manager. For me, the manager should be setting the tone, and if he's not involved in coaching enough, so that he can effect things when he's openly condemning the way the team play, then it's another reason I don't want him as manager. 

I want someone who is capable of effecting a quality squad with his coaching methods and style of play. Someone who just picks a team and relies on others to sort it out on the training ground is a waste of time for what we need IMO. 

 

[thabucks]

Following on from earlier  I work within and see the daily workings of a football club and know the manager reasonably well to chat about these types of things. What is said after and before games is well rehearsed, cliched and not always near the truth. They say things to protect themselves and/or the players.

It's a self serving game. A manager will always try to protect his reputation as in doing so will hopefully mean when the chop does fall he will find a new job. Also they play to the fans emotions and try to stay onside and tell the fans what they think they want to hear, buying them more time. So no I don't always believe what the manager or any manager says to the press one little bit. I trust my eyes on these matters not my ears. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by thabucks

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I just don't think it all comes down to one coach. Surely his coaching follows instructions from his manager and assistant manager. For me, the manager should be setting the tone, and if he's not involved in coaching enough, so that he can effect things when he's openly condemning the way the team play....

No me neither. I agree with the bit quoted. What I'm saying is Bruce needs to sort it out (the coaching). It is his responsibility to do that. His previous teams have generally scored well in this league, and been effective and efficient and winning. So he can do it, he just hasn't done it at Villa. He has sorted out what was a bad mindset, what was a mess defensively, but he's not done as much as he or we would want. Change the coaching before dumping the manager and all his coaches, at a cost that takes away from the ability to recruit players, due to FFP. Seems like a better course of action to me. Bruce needs to improve in his team selection, too.

[DaveAV1]

16 minutes ago, blandy said:

But given he had to get a coach in mid season when it's hard to prise people away, and there are rules and so on to prevent it if the current club wants to stop it, I don't blame him much.

There lies the risk in not being decisive at the end of the season. If it's hard to get good coaches mid season it's even harder to get a good manager. 

[thabucks]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

so where is the argument now, with the owners.

look forward, not back.

I find this quite humorous given how often I've heard you talk about Ron Saunders and the past. A great manager but from a different era. Not a dig btw just an observation. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by thabucks

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

There lies the risk in not being decisive at the end of the season. If it's hard to get good coaches mid season it's even harder to get a good manager. 

Yeah, true. If you consider "changing the coaching" as indecisive. The risk of changing manager in the light of results mid season is one that every single club has. It's part of sporting life. No one can accurately predict the future with any certainty. You just have to go with what you think is for the best. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, thabucks said:

I find this quite humorous given how often I've heard you talk about Ron Saunders and the past. A great manager but from a different era. Not a dig btw just an observation. 

we all have our moments, when it don't suit

[TRO]

Just some selective quotes from Steve Bruce this season......

"Pretty Pathetic Stuff"

Norwich 1 Villa 0 ,Carrow Rd December 13

" We certainly didn't take part in the game...On days like this you apologise to people who have travelled. It was pretty pathetic stuff"

"Man Up"

Cardiff 1 Villa 0 ,Cardiff City Stadium January 2

"The sheer lack of quality to do the basics right was simply not good enough.....so they can either man up to it and say we've got to do it this way or alternatively,I'll find a team eventually that will play MY game"

" Just Unacceptable"

Wolves 1 Villa 0, Molineux, January 14

" Some of the stuff was unacceptable......What we have produced is not good enough to get a result in this division, let alone win a local derby"

" Sometimes you just feel embarrassed"

Brentford 3 Villa 0, Griffin Park,Jan 31

" We were totally abject.....We was so easy to play against.....I can only apologise"

" We xxxxxx around with it"

Blackburn 1 Villa 0, Ewood Park, April 29

" I didn't see us take part in the game...I didn't see us create a chance, beat a man, win a challenge....I didn't see us do anything"

"I am disappointed, angry & upset, but it doesn't really matter does it... what does matter to me is that they are supposed to be my team and they are supposed to mirror the manager a little bit"....."certainly what I saw today isn't good enough"

 

You can all draw your own conclusions, but that does not strike me as manager who is getting from them what he is expecting.

Now if that is a criticism aimed at him, maybe he needs to be ready to correct that for the start of the season.

Edited May 2, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I personally think this a load of nonsense, and if it were true he'd have lost the dressing room a long time ago.

Bruce should be criticised for not getting the players to play the way he wants them to.

Stuff like this shouldn't be invented though. I mean are you actually saying the team ARE playing how he wants them to play, yet he's still coming out to the media and saying they're not playing how he wants them to play to deflect blame from himself (consider he was saying the same things when we were winning games)

Do you not see how convoluted that is?

That is a fair criticism.