Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It's a bit of a straw man argument though. It's a squad game, injuries and suspensions happen all the time. Every week in fact. It is his job as manager to adapt, it's probably the most important aspect of the job. 

 

I agree but I think with Bruce this has been compounded because he hasn't had injuries with in a settled side/formation, that he'd put in place over a number of months, where he has had to slot two or three in, he has had injuries whilst he is trying to implement a formation/style.

If he is true to his word that he wanted to play 4-4-2 then on the day we signed Hogan Gabby got injured, RHM signed a contract but is also injured and last week Hogan gets injured leaving us with one fit striker. Bang goes the 4-4-2.

I think Bruce's biggest issue has been that he hasn't had a pre season and has had to initially try to cut his cloth to suit what he inherited and then having made major changes to his squad in January, you'd like to think to suit the system he wanted to play, he quickly found himself with one fit forward and again having to cut his cloth to suit.

Good managers adapt though and despite me offering up a defence for him I have to acknowledge so far he hasn't rolled with the punches very well. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by markavfc40

[striker]

3 hours ago, Eastie said:

None of the other clubs he came into were in the sort of mess that villa were - one win in 19 , no wins away in over a year - a whole team of new players - this is Steve Bruce trying to manage a football club not some magician pulling rabbits from a hat .

the club was devoid of confidence totally - the fact he took 23 points from 12 games is astonishing considering the mess he inherited - of course we'd like to have reached the play offs but some people need a touch of realism here .

the manager has to be given time without people calling for his head on the back of one bad run of results .

This club needs unity and stability and not people stamping their feet and throwing their toys out the pram over a few bad results .

give him till the end of the season and let's judge him then .

It hasn't been just a few bad results though has it? It has been a fair amount of games following decent results. I also don't think its people stamping their feet or throwing their toys out of their prams for the sake of it. Most of that criticism here has been fairly well reasoned and considered. No-one expected to be several points off the relegation places before the game against Derby. I think it has also been the manner of those performances which have given rise for concern, rightly in my view.

Bruce set up very defensively against a Spurs B team in the cup, something which grated with me a lot. He has continued those negative tactics and the club has paid for that in performances and results. I actually thought he set up Villa to play that way in the league as a sticking plaster trying to keep Villa in contention for the playoffs until the January window opened. Since buying Lansbury and Hourihane who by trade are attacking midfielders I expected a more offensive Villa but that hasn't happened and we've seen basically the same tactics before the window opened. Its not just coincidence that Villa still struggle to score goals after signing more progressive midfielders and a forward that prior to coming to Villa was scoring goals for fun.

After seeing that stat though concerning how long it took Bruce to get other teams promoted he has until the first 6-7 games of next season before he loses me totally in thinking he is the right man for Villa. 

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, striker said:

It hasn't been just a few bad results though has it? It has been a fair amount of games following decent results. I also don't think its people stamping their feet or throwing their toys out of their prams for the sake of it. Most of that criticism here has been fairly well reasoned and considered. No-one expected to be several points off the relegation places before the game against Derby. I think it has also been the manner of those performances which have given rise for concern, rightly in my view.

Bruce set up very defensively against a Spurs B team in the cup, something which grated with me a lot. He has continued those negative tactics and the club has paid for that in performances and results. I actually thought he set up Villa to play that way in the league as a sticking plaster trying to keep Villa in contention for the playoffs until the January window opened. Since buying Lansbury and Hourihane who by trade are attacking midfielders I expected a more offensive Villa but that hasn't happened and we've seen basically the same tactics before the window opened. Its not just coincidence that Villa still struggle to score goals after signing more progressive midfielders and a forward that prior to coming to Villa was scoring goals for fun.

After seeing that stat though concerning how long it took Bruce to get other teams promoted he has until the first 6-7 games of next season before he loses me totally in thinking he is the right man for Villa. 

Biggest mistakes for me were bringing in Johnstone and not lining up at least a loan replacement for kodija- it was foolish to rely on gabby and we all knew that .

Those mistakes have cost us several points in   my view.

regarding the transfer window he has recruited very well but not really been able to field a settled team with jedinak out for weeks and injuries to bree , hourihane and hogan - until he gets his preferred team and formation  it's hard to judge how things will progress -  he has the players now and has got to produce results - he seems to want to go with 442 but without hogan is going to have to go another route - I'm intrigued to see how these 2 games pan out as a couple of decisive wins would go a long way to rebuilding confidence - however a nervy scrappy affair tomorrow will leave many unhappy again .

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, sne said:

You have to be a higher level Operating Thetan to understand it.

Just send money.

Only Xenu, the great dictator of the galactic confederacy can decipher that one. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 hours ago, sne said:

If the plan is to play with 2 forwards you don't get rid of 3 and only bring in 1 during January, especially when one of your strikers is expected to miss 1 month of play due to the AFCON and Gabby is the only other option.

If your tactic is hinging on Jedinak sweeping up everything at DCM you bring in a back up as he hasn't got the legs to last the full 90. 

At least that's how I see it, but I'm not a vastly experienced manager, who knows the league.

Just seem like common sense.

Steve Bruce does not operate in the realms of common sense. 

[KHV]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

Biggest mistakes for me were bringing in Johnstone and not lining up at least a loan replacement for kodija- it was foolish to rely on gabby and we all knew that .

Those mistakes have cost us several points in   my view.

regarding the transfer window he has recruited very well but not really been able to field a settled team with jedinak out for weeks and injuries to bree , hourihane and hogan - until he gets his preferred team and formation  it's hard to judge how things will progress -  he has the players now and has got to produce results - he seems to want to go with 442 but without hogan is going to have to go another route - I'm intrigued to see how these 2 games pan out as a couple of decisive wins would go a long way to rebuilding confidence - however a nervy scrappy affair tomorrow will leave many unhappy again .

 

Thats a big worry for me, nobody plays 4-4-2 and we dont really have the players to play 4-4-2. Anyone that plays 4-4-2 loses out in the middle of the park, we are not very good in the middle of the park.Also we have no real wingers and the the fullbacks are dodgy all round so there is no width. 4-4-2 is outdated, 4-4-2 with this squad even when they are fully fit is suicidal.

If 4-4-2 is his plan for the future then he really does need to be replaced

[Eastie]

29 points from 22 games can be at best described as steadyIng the ship after one win in 19 games - he got off to a flier and expectations rightly at that time were that things were on course for a play off place .

January was awful and Bruce has to accept the blame for Johnstone and gabby among other things - it has taken time to recover but hopefully the derby win will settle the team down and we can blow our next 2 opponents away - bring it on !!!!

[Dr_Pangloss]

29 points from 22 is an absolutely shite return based on the squad we have at this level. 

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, KHV said:

Thats a big worry for me, nobody plays 4-4-2 and we dont really have the players to play 4-4-2. Anyone that plays 4-4-2 loses out in the middle of the park, we are not very good in the middle of the park.Also we have no real wingers and the the fullbacks are dodgy all round so there is no width. 4-4-2 is outdated, 4-4-2 with this squad even when they are fully fit is suicidal.

If 4-4-2 is his plan for the future then he really does need to be replaced

He said after signing hogan that he can now play 442 as he had the strikers to suit it - of course hogan has since been injured and Bruce has experimented too much on various systems none of which have really looked good as he's continually chopping and changing - let's stick to one system for a few games and see how it develops .

Forget 442 without hogan - I think 443 is how we will go for the next few games.

[romavillan]

2 minutes ago, KHV said:

Thats a big worry for me, nobody plays 4-4-2 and we dont really have the players to play 4-4-2. Anyone that plays 4-4-2 loses out in the middle of the park, we are not very good in the middle of the park.Also we have no real wingers and the the fullbacks are dodgy all round so there is no width. 4-4-2 is outdated, 4-4-2 with this squad even when they are fully fit is suicidal.

If 4-4-2 is his plan for the future then he really does need to be replaced

I'm with you if he meant a flat 4-4-2, that will get beaten by any decent passing side playing any formation that puts 3 central midfielders in the middle. There's a lot of variations to it, I think we'd have a good 4-1-3-2 with everyone fit. Who knows though? I'm not too fussed as to what the shape is if he can get us not looking like a group of randoms rounded up out the car park 30 mins before kick off. Which is the current style.

[KHV]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

He said after signing hogan that he can now play 442 as he had the strikers to suit it - of course hogan has since been injured and Bruce has experimented too much on various systems none of which have really looked good as he's continually chopping and changing - let's stick to one system for a few games and see how it develops .

Forget 442 without hogan - I think 443 is how we will go for the next few games.

The extra man is a good idea, we need one

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

29 points from 22 is an absolutely shite return based on the squad we have at this level. 

Seven of those have only been here a few weeks though so need time to settle - 10 from 11 was relegation form under RDM - we have shown mIdtable form under Bruce which is an improvement although obviously not enough to get us where we want to be .

things need to improve no question from here to May .

[Eastie]

Just now, KHV said:

The extra man is a good idea, we need one

 433

[romavillan]

5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

He said after signing hogan that he can now play 442 as he had the strikers to suit it - of course hogan has since been injured and Bruce has experimented too much on various systems none of which have really looked good as he's continually chopping and changing - let's stick to one system for a few games and see how it develops .

Forget 442 without hogan - I think 443 is how we will go for the next few games.

Bruce may be tempted to play 4 in goal, 4 in defence and 3 in midfield

[AshVilla]

With the recent losses incurred by the club i think the club really need to have a long hard think in the summer if Bruce is the man to get us promoted next season.

If we don't get promoted were screwed.

[KHV]

2 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

With the recent losses incurred by the club i think the club really need to have a long hard think in the summer if Bruce is the man to get us promoted next season.

If we don't get promoted were screwed.

Yeah, if we don't go up next year we are in real deep shit. It's going to be up there with Peter Risdale's Leeds **** up

[TRO]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

Bruce may be tempted to play 4 in goal, 4 in defence and 3 in midfield

Innovative

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KHV said:

Yeah, if we don't go up next year we are in real deep shit. It's going to be up there with Peter Risdale's Leeds **** up

I think it already is......and Leicester maybe joining the group.

Edited February 27, 2017 by TRO

[dont_do_it_doug.]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

Straw man or not........That was just me picking out One example out , without taxing my brain.

My point simply was, some of these accusations are actually unfounded.....of course he has to adapt to the conditions.....but hold on Dave, its a bit much to simply sweep under the carpet all thats gone on and then nonchalantly say "Its his job as manager to adapt".( we all know that)....sorry, but that comes across like whatever feasible argument is put forward, you just default to .....well he's crap....He's had one window to fix years of shite......come on!

No one is saying Steve Bruce is great, but some of us supporting him during times on the pitch (when we know we could need our heads tested) are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. ......................The job is massive mate.

I think Steve Bruce needs a bit of support right now.

If in the longer term it proved that his detractors are right.....then the inevitable happens.

He's getting support mate. Nobody at the ground is calling for his head, the crowd haven't 'turned' as such. I have supported him, in the last few pages in fact and have disagreed with him strongly at other times. 

The bit in bold, I think you're talking to somebody else here. I have made my point perfectly clear and fairly precise, across a series of posts, and at no point have I said that he's crap or resulted to insults. Nor have I been nonchalant about it, though I do feel fairly relaxed. 

I have't been on Villa talk much over the last few weeks, though I can tell from this post alone that the lines have been drawn. I've obviously been placed over the 'other' side. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Grasshopper]

22 hours ago, av1 said:

They should have had a penalty to be fair mate. 

Had the ref given it :

1) yellow/red card?

2) Derby score/miss?

So what would have happened in those senarios

Pen given - Derby Score? - Derby miss?

Villa 0-1-3 pts?