BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: Good luck with that. can see it now, pissed up rowdy gang of 20+ England youths, errrm, hey guys, any chance of just toning it down a tad? I can't see the response as being favourable" You're right there. If you can't make 20 blokes stand down then you've no chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 And the reality is that it would be far more than just 20+ Its a cultural thing, people love the Irish so the Irish love the people. people hate the English so the English hate the people, it's perpetual and there's no magic fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 when 20 lads from the local french team pile in to them lets see if they all remain so jovial and tell each other to stand down...or the russians rock up with their gum shields and MMA gloves... english fans are magnets for dickheads, that irish times article about the myth surrounding us is a good one "the irish are in town, lets all go have a drink and a good time!" "the english are in town, lets tool up..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Most people won't speak up if it's a single drunken guy being a dickhead on a Saturday night, there's not much chance of groups being told to wind their neck in. There's too many nutters who'll happily smash your nose in or pull a knife if you look at them the wrong way, so I cna't say I blame people for not feeling it's their responsibility to police other fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 That's my point though. You're right when you say that about the perceptions, which is precisely why it has to change from within. It has to be a very visible stand made by England fans against their own element. If it is made clear that it absolutely won't be allowed to escalate then outside perceptions will start to change. Because at the moment, quite wrongly, the perception is almost that that's what you get when England are in town and I don't believe for a second that 99% of English people like that image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cridontour Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 From the BBC News website, But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to "keep up the good work". "I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted. "What happened in Marseille and other French cities is not the fans' fault. It is down to the police's inability to organise and hold such events," he wrote in a separate tweet the same day. Mr Lebedev said fans needed to be "protected", adding: "We'll deal with them when they get home". Unbelievable!!! Full article here, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Cridontour said: From the BBC News website, But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to "keep up the good work". "I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted. "What happened in Marseille and other French cities is not the fans' fault. It is down to the police's inability to organise and hold such events," he wrote in a separate tweet the same day. Mr Lebedev said fans needed to be "protected", adding: "We'll deal with them when they get home". Unbelievable!!! Full article here, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213 Staggering attitude from their leaders. For a variety of different reasons, Russia simply has no place in modern sport. Whether it be institutional PED-taking, or their attitudes towards violence, racism and homophobia. It's just a complete toilet. Aaaand it's hosting the next world cup 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 So what is the difference between the Irish packing out bars, drinking in the streets, singing out aloud and English fans doing the same? These people are happy to take the money all day long whilst people continue chucking pint after pint down them. If you want a bunch of sight seers who visit museums, close the bars down. Don't keep them open 24/7 and then complain that there are people who are being disrespectful-That's what 12+ hours drinking sessions does to people. Football fans in England go to pubs every week, they have a few beers, get boisterous and sing songs. Do we want to take this away from our game as well now? Its all crap that is coming out now-The French are saying the English were being disrespectful-How were they? By ploughing more money behind the bar than any other nation is going to? I didn't see too many bars refusing to serve people who were being "disrespectful" It's boll#cks. The bottom line is the French have messed up big time. The policing was appalling, security non-existent. How hard was it to predict that the port area was a potential flashpoint? That Russian thugs were going to cause trouble? The police stood by in many of those videos and allowed English people to take proper beatings. Innocent people who were there purely for the football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: So what is the difference between the Irish packing out bars, drinking in the streets, singing out aloud and English fans doing the same? Don't keep them open 24/7 and then complain that there are people who are being disrespectful-That's what 12+ hours drinking sessions does to people. No. It isn't. And that, right there, is the difference you were looking for. You said it. Not me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, BOF said: No. It isn't. And that, right there, is the difference you were looking for. You said it. Not me. But they are not being disrespectful-That is what I said. English fans sing songs and its disrespectful, Irish fans sing songs and it one big party. How come an Irishman can get drunk, loud and boisterous but an Englishman can't? Besides, some of those Irish songs are anything but respectful to British people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, BOF said: No. It isn't. And that, right there, is the difference you were looking for. You said it. Not me. The difference will also no doubt be the songs sung and the attitudes. Obviously im not there so havnt seen or heard everything but have heard some of the aggressive English chants and only seen the irish fans on a jolly, cheering on french dustbin men and a swedish fan that looks a little like jimmy saville. Again this is only an assumption, but usually i thought most things kick off with chairs and fists etc after lots of shouting and swearing from each group, proving their manlyness etc..This is what i presume would have happened with the Marseille group. If no shouted or swore back would they keep getting more aggressive? What im getting at is i dont think when provoked the irish would really shout/sing/swear back and i think Irish fans would. Obviously the above may not be the case with Russian fans in the stadium which was terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 We're also well able to slag ourselves which is a big help. Something others often lack. The Swedes were giving us stick about our 'ugly wives'. The response was that their team is shit but their women are fit. And everyone laughs and we move on. Whereas I heard that the only thing stopping a group of English from kicking off when some Irish fans had the audacity to cheer the late Russian equaliser in a Paris bar was because they were outnumbered about 6 to 1. How a football fan can have such a thin skin that they can't even take other fans cheering the opposition, and just take it as part of the life of being a football fan without getting all upset about it, I just don't know. It's utterly baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just now, BOF said: We're also well able to slag ourselves which is a big help. Something others often lack. The Swedes were giving us stick about our 'ugly wives'. The response was that their team is shit but their women are fit. And everyone laughs and we move on. I don't want to be 'that guy' but the back and forth with Sweden ("You're shit, but your birds are fit" countered with "go home to your ugly wives") has been a thing which happens any time they play an English speaking country. It certainly happened when England played Sweden in the 2006 World Cup and I dare say that wasn't the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 minute ago, The_Rev said: I don't want to be 'that guy' but the back and forth with Sweden ("You're shit, but your birds are fit" countered with "go home to your ugly wives") has been a thing which happens any time they play an English speaking country. It certainly happened when England played Sweden in the 2006 World Cup and I dare say that wasn't the first time. I'm sure it probably has and you could probably use it as an example that all English speaking football fans are capable of having a good time. I was just using it as an example of how we treat ALL banter. The attitude is you won't rile us because we'll just laugh and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 minute ago, The_Rev said: I don't want to be 'that guy' but the back and forth with Sweden ("You're shit, but your birds are fit" countered with "go home to your ugly wives") has been a thing which happens any time they play an English speaking country. It certainly happened when England played Sweden in the 2006 World Cup and I dare say that wasn't the first time. No but when the English sing it, its an act of aggression. Outnumbered 6 to 1 in a bar yet they were going to kick off? Based on what exactly? See how its easy to shoot down the English? Meanwhile: 150 Russian hard core, well trained troublemakers blames for the violence yet not one of them was arrested-All hail the saving grace though, a 16 year old English fan was arrested for throwing a bottle. 50 year old man in a critical condition with severe brain injuries after being attacked with iron bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 18 minutes ago, Butterfingers said: But they are not being disrespectful-That is what I said. English fans sing songs and its disrespectful, Irish fans sing songs and it one big party. How come an Irishman can get drunk, loud and boisterous but an Englishman can't? Besides, some of those Irish songs are anything but respectful to British people. From what I have seen, the English 'sing-songs' seemed to consist of snarling in the face of the police, provoking the watching locals and police with songs like "stand up if you hate the French" and "10 German bombers..." whilst tossing empty bottles at the police for good measure. The English supporters (minority) are comletely trashing everywhere they go. I'm not talking about the fighting either, I'm talking about leaving everywhere like its just staged 2 weeks of Glastonbury, thousands of smashed bottles, shit, piss, rubbish everywhere. Incredibly disrespectful... then you say its not fair the police are protecting them enough :-o 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Most England fans have a good time too. The problem we (England) have is that a number of dickheads poison the atmosphere, I'm not sure whether that's anything to do with the sheer numbers of England fans who travel or whether it's the remnants of those who were teenagers and twentysomethings back in the 80s who still go and stir up trouble today, or that the people who go to England away these days are there to be shot at because of the actions of English hooligans thirty years ago. I respect you BOF but what I don't like is when a holier than thou attitude creeps into the thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Genie said: From what I have seen, the English 'sing-songs' seemed to consist of snarling in the face of the police, provoking the watching locals and police with songs like "stand up if you hate the French" and "10 German bombers..." whilst tossing empty bottles at the police for good measure. The English supporters (minority) are comletely trashing everywhere they go. I'm not talking about the fighting either, I'm talking about leaving everywhere like its just staged 2 weeks of Glastonbury, thousands of smashed bottles, shit, piss, rubbish everywhere. Incredibly disrespectful... then you say its not fair the police are protecting them enough :-o You've seen different videos to me then. Where did you suggest all the rubbish was put? It looked to me like the bin men had been on strike for the previous month but if there is no provision to throw rubbish away, what would you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 i saw the rubbish thing too, not sure yet if its something where it is the england fans or just another example of how badly organised marseille looks to be, tens of thousands drinking glass bottles in the streets, i doubt very much there is any type of coping mechanism for it, why arent local bars using plastic? are the fans being made to use off licenses for booze instead, where are the bottle banks? i go to lyon wednesday with england playing in st etienne next week so i'll see both sides of it, very much interested to see how much worse than everyone else we really are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 minute ago, The_Rev said: Most England fans have a good time too. The problem we (England) have is that a number of dickheads poison the atmosphere, I'm not sure whether that's anything to do with the sheer numbers of England fans who travel or whether it's the remnants of those who were teenagers and twentysomethings back in the 80s who still go and stir up trouble today, or that the people who go to England away these days are there to be shot at because of the actions of English hooligans thirty years ago. I respect you BOF but what I don't like is when a holier than thou attitude creeps into the thread. And I'm really trying not to be, because I know how it comes across. I was initially just coming in to make the suggestion that in order to solve a problem, it must start from within the larger group itself, if indeed the problem is as small as the percentage that is often cited. I'll leave it at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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