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Fan Trouble at Euro 2016


Genie

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27 minutes ago, Xela said:

Britain? I'm not sure it should be the responsibility of the British police to work abroad. Especially when they are woefully understaffed in their own country 

Every country sends a contingent of their own police, as far as I'm aware. There are certainly English, Welsh, and Northern Irish police there. Only in small numbers though, I'm not sure exactly what their remit is, but they're there.

Edited by Davkaus
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28 minutes ago, Xela said:

Britain? I'm not sure it should be the responsibility of the British police to work abroad. Especially when they are woefully understaffed in their own country 

The French Police's poor handling this makes me worry about how easy it would be for a major terrorist incident to happen.

It'll be interesting to see if there is any trouble between Russian and Welsh fans. If there is then we know its the Russians who are the instigators 

they'll have moles and spotters working alongside the french police but they'll have no jurisdiction or say in the tactics their riot police use

the flare gun will be opening some eyes this morning, absolutely shocking that they've got that in the stadium

watching ITV currently doing their best to blame england fans without actually saying it, showing footage of england fans being ran out of the ground by hundreds of russian fans and at the same time implying its us causing the trouble, we dont stand a chance

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Every bit of reputation the English have the Russians should have ten fold. Absolute words removed, horrible horrible people. They were attacking English to a lesser extent in Ukraine too and we didn't even play them.

FIFA have to take the World Cup off them.

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Considering the hype about the high level security at the stadiums I'm really shocked at how many flares and 'noise bombs' have been set off in the stands each game.

How have they got in?? Have they hired Mr Magoo and Stevie Wonder at the turnstiles?

It's pretty embarassing for the French Authorities for sure.

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21 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637445/How-did-Russian-fans-manage-FLARE-gun-stadium-aim-England-supporters.html

From the article :

Russian fans paraded the England flags they had stolen from their counterparts - including an Aston Villa one (third left) 

352DE50500000578-3637445-image-a-34_1465

 

Also a video of russian fans firing a flare gun inside the stadium..

I saw this yesterday, apparently the police chased off a load of England fans and they left them behind then the Russians came over and nicked the unattended banners.

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I do wonder if it's worth the hassle to host events like this, the WC and the Olympics. 

If I were in power I'd stay well away. Stadiums, roads, security, trains, weather, virus's, a major ballache. 

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1 hour ago, penguin said:

UEFA have opened a case against Russia, not England. Wonder if the media will calm down on the vilification of our fans now, I doubt it.

The reason for this is that Russian fans are being blamed for starting the trouble inside the stadium, which is all the UEFA case refers to. 

It doesn't mean England fans haven't spent the past three days trashing Marseille, because they have. It's just that UEFA consider that to be entirely the business of the French police. 

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14 hours ago, penguin said:

Why is this ironic? And it's not just "football chavs" it's all England fans, the immediate conclusion if there's any trouble involving them is it's their fault and if it's not they deserved it anyway. The general sentiment of this thread sums it up pretty well.

Because many of the same people that I have seen on social media asking for journalists not to tar every England fan with the same brush because of the actions of a few idiots are the same people who I have seen berate all Muslims or all immigrants because of the actions of a few.

I know yesterday the Russians were largely to blame. Certainly to blame in the staidum. But some England fans that day and mainly the day before were trashing the place and behaving in an embarrassing manner. 

Edited by omariqy
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Uefa has threatened to disqualify England and Russia from Euro 2016 if there is any further violence by fans.

It has begun disciplinary proceedings against Russia - but not England - after "totally unacceptable" scenes at Saturday's England-Russia game.

 

DQ Threat

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Old enemy rears its ugly head as England fans clash with police

 

'It remains the bastard strand of English football’s DNA. The run up to this campaign has been dominated by nostalgia over Euro 96, the moment at which football came home, put on its face paint and transformed into today’s glossy lifestyle choice.

But in the images of charging riot police, bloodied faces, flying bottles and packs of fans descending like dogs on downed rivals were echoes of scenes in Charleroi in 2000 and Marseille in 1998, two years after the supposed watershed of 1996.

Since then, serious disorder has largely been avoided through careful policing, banning orders and a shift in the demographics of those travelling. But the conditions for their return has never entirely gone away.

Of the 20,000 or so England fans who converged on the city, who are among half million or so expected to travel from the UK, the vast majority would have more in common with those who have created a largely benign vibe at recent tournaments.

Elsewhere in the city, they ate, drank and sunbathed. But it was at the old port where cameras documented grim scenes that will obscure all else and, it is feared, set the tone for England’s campaign.

In truth, police in both France and the UK have long been concerned that England’s opening match would be a tinderbox. Memories of 1998 when there were running battles between locals, England fans and jumpy riot police only too ready to charge first and ask questions later remain strong.

The unique conditions in Marseille were always going to prove challenging, given the toxic brew of a large contingent of England fans (most peaceable, a handful intent on violence and some in between depending on drink and provocation), locals who were liable to challenge them, and a hardcore of organised Russian hooligans.

At a pre-tournament briefing by UK police, a theme emerged. Whereas the aim at recent tournaments, certainly since the 2006 World Cup in Germany, has been to convince local police and residents that England fans have changed and educate them that boisterousness may not necessarily equal lawlessness, this time it would be the fans who had to change their behaviour.

With more than 90,000 police, army and security personnel on duty across a country still edgy and jittery in the wake of terrorist attacks on Paris less than seven months ago, the UK liaison officers admitted that fans would have to behave differently.

In Marseille that didn’t happen. Add in military police far from minded to follow UK advice on quietly containing volatile situations rather than clearing areas with teargas, plus the threat from organised Russian hooligans and locals, and the grim scene was set.

Some casual observers will say this confirms nothing has changed since the bad old days.

In reality, the introduction of the England fans membership scheme has largely changed the atmosphere during regular qualifying campaigns and banning orders have prevented known troublemakers from travelling.

Many committed England fans who follow the side home and away are desperately determined not to go back to the days when they were demonised where ever they went and many work hard to build bridges.

But instead, the images that were being beamed across a country still unsure whether it has permission to start enjoying this tournament given the security blanket in place were of the carnage in Marseille. Perhaps there has been too much of a rush to consider the problem solved, or at least contained. Recent campaigns are not valid comparisons.

Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine was logistically challenging, while the travelling hordes at World Cups in South Africa and Brazil often felt interchangeable with an older, more moneyed crowd who might go on an international rugby union or cricket tour.

In contrast, hundreds of thousands of fans will flood unmoderated into France, many of them without tickets. The Football Association and UK authorities may argue there is only so much they can do. In addition, it emerged before the tournament the number of banning orders in place had declined by more than 1,000 to 1,919 since the last World Cup.

It must be acknowledged that the worst of Saturday’s violence came when a highly organised gang of 200 Russian fans caused mayhem when they stormed the English contingent in the old port, leaving several injured and one clinging to his life.

Yet England fans appeared far from blameless. A combination of all-day drinking, a large contingent of boisterous younger fans – some perhaps travelling with England for the first time – and an undeniable minority of hardcore troublemakers led to a toxic brew.

There will be understandable reluctance to apportion blame until the full facts are known. Some will blame heavy handed police tactics, others Russian provocation. Some will question why an already potentially problematic clash was scheduled in Marseille in the first place.

But perhaps it is also time for the wider contingent of England fans to honest about the fact that colonising a central point, draping it with England flags and aggressively bellowing “No surrender to the IRA”, “10 German bombers”, “If it wasn’t for the English you’d be krauts” and “**** off Europe, we’re all voting out” with beery belligerence is in itself an act of aggression.

As in 1998, England’s campaign now takes them from the south to Lens in the north – in a match against Wales. A day earlier, Russia face Slovakia in nearby Lille. It seems inevitable that it will be marked by tension and ill feeling, as already jittery organisers desperately hope for the best but fear the worst.

Meanwhile, any claim by England fans to the moral high ground has been left behind with the carpet of broken bottles, blood stained streets and teargas canisters in Marseille.'

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/11/old-enemy-rears-its-ugly-head-as-england-fans-clash-with-police

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Ok-Perhaps this is a tad controversial but here is my take on it. I am lucky, I do not have the same feeling for England that I do for the Villa. I hadn't watched a game since Brazil and didn't feel anywhere near the disappointment from the last minute equaliser as I did from the many times that its happened to Villa.

However, I feel the English are getting a raw deal here. I have not seen one bit of footage that shows the English as instigators. You have a few hundred local hooligans there, who were there for one purpose and that was to fight and cause trouble. The Russians also seemed prepared for trouble, with reports of many of them wearing gum shields, balaclavas, hoods etc.

The English were all drinking in bars and were happy to have stayed there. There could have been 2000 Dutch, German or anyone else in and around the area and it wouldn't have been a problem. The problems arose when gangs of Russians came from nowhere and attacked English people randomly. many fans were wearing England shirts-When was the last time an English hooligan wore a football shirt?

Throwing bottles at police is unacceptable and cannot be defended but its almost as if people can't wait for this type of thing to happen. When was the last time that the English kicked off in a tournament? The past few tournaments have passed off peacefully if I recall? It is really only Eastern European countries who are still doing this stuff nowadays.

I have found much of what I have watched over the past 2 days to be sickening. Its bullying and cowardice at its highest. There is a Stan Collymore video out there where a channel 4 news reporter tells him that the Russians all flew into Switzerland and then hired cars to take them to France in order to avoid detection. The English flew straight there and set up camp in the port with flags-Which of the two sets were planning trouble?

The songs and chanting are annoying but would it be any different if Villa or any other English club was playing in Marseille in such a big game?

It was England fans this time. Next time it could be Villa fans-We need to keep this into perspective. At what point do you not retaliate or defend yourself?

I've always thought the English got a raw deal abroad-My feeling is that sometimes the fans need defending and this is one of those occasions.

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55 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

But perhaps it is also time for the wider contingent of England fans to honest about the fact that colonising a central point, draping it with England flags and aggressively bellowing “No surrender to the IRA”, “10 German bombers”, “If it wasn’t for the English you’d be krauts” and “**** off Europe, we’re all voting out” with beery belligerence is in itself an act of aggression.

 

Sticks and stones and all that, but its hardly surprising we p#ss a lot of people off when we travel abroad. 

Chanting of this sort is unacceptable, its aggressive and it invites trouble. I'm sure most the English fans didn't go for a fight but they must be pretty stupid if they didn't realise that chatting of this sort wasn't going to invite trouble. 

Edited by av1
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And yet it's mostly not those chanting getting attacked. There's a significant number of organised russians there looking to beat the shit out of any defenceless people they see.

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