Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[Jareth]

Just now, Zatman said:

a day after getting 12 million for 2 players 

two weeks after spending 12 million on 3 players

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Ahem

Indeed. The question was intended to clarify whether any concerns over 'this guy' were pathetic or just those specified in another post. It was, therefore, about Tony Xia and whether the other poster thought any concerns over him (Tony Xia) were pathetic or just those listed by a specific poster (in this case Richard).

Edited August 4, 2016 by snowychap

[useless]

Some interesting stuff I found about Recon Group (apology if off topic)

'

About Recon Group

Recon Group is a multinational conglomerate operating in six core business sectors and has taken advantage of China’s economic growth over the last two decades as the Government has carried out a programme of moving 500 million people from rural to urban living.  Recon Group has been at the forefront of this giant urbanisation development and holds an estimated 40% market share in the Smart City sector.

The six main business divisions include IT Infrastructure and Services for Smart Cities, Health & Agriculture, New Energy & Smart Transportation, Civic Engineering & Design, Recon Capital including insurance & financial services and Recon Culture including Sports, Films, Leisure & Tourism. Recon Group’s core philosophy is to create an economic ecosystem based on implementing new technologies, resources and culture worldwide.

Recon Group originally was found in USA in 1963 and was regenerated by its current Chairman, Tony Jiantong Xia. Dr. Xia studied at Harvard and MIT obtained his doctoral degree in urban planning and informatics. He was amongst the initial 25 highly rated oversea elites out of the special 1,000 People Plan and appointed as the national special expert for urban planning and smart city in China.

Tony Xia and his team have also met with Home Minister Mr. Kiren Rijiju, Industry Minister Mr. Babull Supriyo, Foreign Affairs Minister General V.K. Singh and with Mr. Naresh Kumar, the Chairman of New Delhi Municipal Council and other senior administrators to discuss bringing its expertise to assist in the 100 Smart Cities plans of India. 

Recon Group’s companies have been responsible for over 400 smart cities in China and are the leading organization for all aspects of smart cities from the planning and design stage right through implementation and the subsequent management including the most advanced software and technology.  

Recon Group is also investigating opportunities in India for its other businesses including Lotus Health, the largest condiments and health food company publicly listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange. '

 

I haven't got a clue what a 'Smart City' is but a forty percent share of it in China sounds good.

Edited August 4, 2016 by useless

[DCJonah]

12 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Is it Richard's specific list of concerns that are 'pathetic' or is it any 'concerns ver this guy'?

It was that specific list. However I can't see much evidence for concerns at the moment, so they would seem pretty pathetic to me at this point. 

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It was that specific list. However I can't see much evidence for concerns at the moment, so they would seem pretty pathetic to me at this point. 

I think that's a disappointing reaction to people holding a different point of view.

Edit: I do thank you for clarifying things, though.

Edited August 4, 2016 by snowychap

[Jareth]

4 minutes ago, useless said:

Tony Xia and his team have also met with Home Minister Mr. Kiren Rijiju, Industry Minister Mr. Babull Supriyo, Foreign Affairs Minister General V.K. Singh and with Mr. Naresh Kumar, the Chairman of New Delhi Municipal Council and other senior administrators to discuss bringing its expertise to assist in the 100 Smart Cities plans of India. 

I haven't got a clue what a 'Smart City' is but a forty percent share of it in China sounds good.

Recon Group’s companies have been responsible for over 400 smart cities in China and are the leading organization for all aspects of smart cities from the planning and design stage right through implementation and the subsequent management including the most advanced software and technology.  

Recon Group is also investigating opportunities in India for its other businesses including Lotus Health, the largest condiments and health food company publicly listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange. '

Very interesting - seems Tony's main skillset brings the monies in (smart city planning) and takes him around the world, but he wants to weave the villa in to it all, probably as a bit of relief from the serious stuff. He'll never be short of a few bob. 

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I think that's a disappointing reaction to people holding a different point of view.

Edit: I do thank you for clarifying things, though.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, the differing view in this instance seems to be based on nothing but wanting to be negative about this man. I find that quite disappointing. 

 

[Zatman]

I wouldnt say negative but after our last 2 owners I dont think its unfair to find some Villa fans sceptical and edgy about it

[snowychap]

Just now, DCJonah said:

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, the differing view in this instance seems to be based on nothing but wanting to be negative about this man. I find that quite disappointing. 

 

Perhaps it's more a case of being rooted in severe disappointment over the last few years?

Perhaps some want to see talk, tweets and signings converted in to performances on the pitch and points before they commit themselves to another new dawn for the club?

Perhaps we remember how people told us that N'Zogbia was twice the player of Downing for half the price, for example?

Perhaps they are skeptical and the things which you and others see as so necessarily positive won't become that until they bear fruit?

[DCJonah]

Just now, snowychap said:

Perhaps it's more a case of being rooted insevere disappointment over the last few years?

Perhaps some want to see talk, tweets and signings converted in to performances on the pitch and points before they commit themselves to another new dawn for the club?

Perhaps we remember how people told us that N'Zogbia was twice the player of Downing for half the price, for example?

Perhaps they are skeptical and the things which you and others see as so necessarily positive won't become that until they bear fruit

That's fine. But surely you wait for the evidence to present itself before you start seriously questioning and being concerned. 

And if people are worried because of what's happened in the past, then they can't really claim to not be negative. The current owner has nothing to do with the previous one and has nothing to do with things that have gone wrong in the past. Being concerned just because of that is a seriously glass half empty look on the situation. 

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I wouldnt say negative but after our last 2 owners I dont think its unfair to find somesomem Villa fans sceptical and edgy about it

Well that's quite negative. The last guy was shit so I'm concerned about this new one who has nothing to do with him. That's not a really grounded reason for concerns. 

[snowychap]

12 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

That's fine. But surely you wait for the evidence to present itself before you start seriously questioning and being concerned. 

And if people are worried because of what's happened in the past, then they can't really claim to not be negative. The current owner has nothing to do with the previous one and has nothing to do with things that have gone wrong in the past. Being concerned just because of that is a seriously glass half empty look on the situation. 

No, not really. One has to take the history in to account when judging the present and wondering about the future. Even more so when the history is part (though not all) of the present (i.e. those members of the squad who were here before and are still here are part of the history, are the present and will be part of the future).

The whole 'reset to zero' idea has been at the heart of the discussion over the last couple of seasons about where we go. Unfortunately, it led a lot to believe that, after all of the signings last summer, we'd be fine and always be looking upwards (players bedding in, coming on strong later in the season when people gel, everyone gathering premier league experience and thus improving, and so on) and when people questioned it they were put firmly in their place for being negative, for not engaging in the requisite amount of 'positivity' (and annoyingly common theme) and for their concerns not having any basis in evidence.

You may not be a skeptic and I don't condemn you for that but, if you are (whether naturally or by experience in a particular field), then you start from the point of not believing things before the evidence is there to support them.

Edit: That may not be the most rigorously checked post as I'm a bit puddled and a bit distracted by other things going on. Sos.

Edited August 4, 2016 by snowychap

[It's Your Round]

37 minutes ago, Jareth said:

two weeks after spending 12 million on 3 players

Yeah but we'll sell Gabby for £12m next week so it will balance out like 

[bobzy]

19 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I wouldnt say negative but after our last 2 owners I dont think its unfair to find some Villa fans sceptical and edgy about it

Completely agree with this...

 

...but then why make really sarcastic remarks regarding, for example, our owners' tweets when random transfer rumours are circled that go against them? That's actively choosing to pin "faith" in a rumour rather than the words of our owner.

It's seeking a negative and wanting to say "I told you so" - which is fine, but don't expect not to be called out on it. 

[dukes]

48 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

That is Xia's main aim for buying Villa. Tony is basically a chancer who, although has  enough money to fund the day to day running of a football club, doesn't presently have enough to achieve his lofty ambitions.

 He is using the club to increase his  own profile, credibility and contacts to further his business interests.  The Indian academies are a perfect example.  Get  his foot in the door with politicians then cross sell his urban regeneration and health food businesses to them.  In the long run this will be beneficial to both parties as he will get richer and in turn (hopefully) invest more in us.  

And you know this how ?

[allani]

2 hours ago, Deisler123 said:

It is way too early to make any judgement on the new owner...

I personally will wait till Mid September to make my own judgement - first 7-10 games; transfer market; loan market, and most importantly, how he deals with difficulty if the team does not perform well.

Mid-September is still way too early.  I've said before that when Lerner took over I thought he was going to be a brilliant owner - he did lots of impressive things early on (secured a manager who looked like he would be awesome, some decent early signings, re-development of / investment into important Villa assets, engagement of Villa fans, etc, etc).  The first couple of seasons looked promising too and then the wheels came off big time.  So as I have said before I am definitely in the once bitten / twice shy camp.

Xia will not be a good / bad owner in 3, 6, 9 or 12 months.  If the team is doing badly after 7-10 games he won't become a bad owner, just as if we are unbeaten after 10 games he won't become a good owner.  He will become a good / bad owner based on his actions over a period of time, how he responds to the good times and the tough times during his tenure, how he improves (or not) the general health / state of the club, etc.  Personally I don't really care whether he has bucket loads of cash or not, I don't really care how much money he invests into  / earns from the club.  The important things are that; he does what is required to bring success to the club both on / off the field; the building blocks for continued success are put in place; the history and "culture" / integrity of the club are preserved; etc, etc.

Such things cannot be achieved overnight.  I think that his regime has got off to a good start; the management / coaching team we've assembled is pretty impressive considering where we are; the first few signings are promising (if not earth-shattering but then we are in the second tier and have been rubbish for a while so earth-shattering was never realistic); he seems to want to engage with the fans (maybe a bit too much); exposure in new "markets" appear to offer great opportunities for extending our support base, generating new revenue streams / opportunities and potentially stealing a march on new prospects / players; etc. etc.  However, they are nothing more than the first baby steps on a long journey.  Promising steps (in my opinion) but baby steps all the same.

As I said I don't really care how much money Xia does / does not have - so that whole argument seems pointless.  If he has no money but successfully delivers against the success criteria I mentioned then that doesn't diminish the success.  I appreciate that people will say that he needs money to invest in the club - but you can build a massively successful business without a huge amount of initial capital.  Bill Gates and Paul Allen were far from billionaires when they founded Microsoft - didn't stop them from creating one hell of a company. Indeed I don't want to be in a position where we're doomed if our owner ever decides to sell / leave the club because no-one else can afford to take us over. 

The whole net spend debate is also (in my view) equally pointless as it immediately penalises an owner / businessman who is able to sell players / assets for more than they are worth and buys players / assets for less than they might be worth.  Similarly there is no point spending £30m net if you haven't improved the team at all and have over-spent doing so.  No doubt some will say - yeah but Xia "promised" a transfer kitty of £20m, £30m, £50m or whatever.  Building a successful / better team for less than that shouldn't diminish the success - just as spending £65m to do so wouldn't be seen as being better.

Similarly - I don't really care whether we have to sell the players who were so **** last season before we replace them with better players - just so long as we do replace them (or suddenly realise their potential - for those that have any) and that by the end of the season the new team has achieved what we wanted them too.  2 months ago I was hoping for a mid-table finish - its our finishing position that counts rather than where we may be after 7-10 matches.  We could lose 4 or 5 of those games but be clearly developing into an effective team and be in a better state for achieving our target than winning 6 or 7 games but being awful, disjointed and just plain lucky.  Yes I would have liked to have had all our signings in place for the start of pre-season - but name 1 club in Europe who achieved that at any point in the last 20 seasons let alone a club that was in as bad a state as we were at the end of the previous season and who were in the position of changing ownership at the same time.

Finally, I get why people might be concerned about protecting the integrity of the club.  I do care about how ethical our owner is and that the values he holds / respects are aligned to those of our club.  If we achieve great success and then find out that our achievements were built on immoral / illegal foundations then that destroys our success (just look at any sportsperson who has won medals by taking drugs as an example of what I mean).  It will take time, transparency and actions to determine whether ANY new owner delivers on this.  In this regard I don't have any more / any less confidence in Xia at this stage than I would in any other new owner and just like anyone else he needs to earn my trust over a period of time.  I've not seen anything thus far that makes me doubt that Xia is anything but a decent guy - but then I also get that others might be more suspicious (and that that suspicion may or may not prove to be valid or misplaced in the future).

In summary, I am feeling much more positive than I was a couple of months ago.  My initial impressions of Xia are pretty good - I think that there have been more positives to date than negatives.  However, I've been here before and I've seen supporters of other clubs be in a similar position under new owners only to then have their hopes and dreams smashed to pieces (or in some cases enhanced and dwarfed by reality).  It is almost certain that at times we (or most of us) will be proclaiming Xia as a hero, at times we (or most of us) will feel slightly ambivalent and at times we (or most of us) will be bemoaning him and calling for his head.  This is football after all, passions run deep and success/despair is rarely far away (although I've slightly forgotten what success feels like when it comes to Villa!!). 

Edited August 4, 2016 by allani

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

I wouldnt say negative but after our last 2 owners I dont think its unfair to find some Villa fans sceptical and edgy about it

Nope. Xia is a god. We must obey. Nothing is wrong. 

[dounavilla]

27 minutes ago, allani said:

Mid-September is still way too early.  I've said before that when Lerner took over I thought he was going to be a brilliant owner - he did lots of impressive things early on (secured a manager who looked like he would be awesome, some decent early signings, re-development of / investment into important Villa assets, engagement of Villa fans, etc, etc).  The first couple of seasons looked promising too and then the wheels came off big time.  So as I have said before I am definitely in the once bitten / twice shy camp.

Xia will not be a good / bad owner in 3, 6, 9 or 12 months.  If the team is doing badly after 7-10 games he won't become a bad owner, just as if we are unbeaten after 10 games he won't become a good owner.  He will become a good / bad owner based on his actions over a period of time, how he responds to the good times and the tough times during his tenure, how he improves (or not) the general health / state of the club, etc.  Personally I don't really care whether he has bucket loads of cash or not, I don't really care how much money he invests into  / earns from the club.  The important things are that; he does what is required to bring success to the club both on / off the field; the building blocks for continued success are put in place; the history and "culture" / integrity of the club are preserved; etc, etc.

Such things cannot be achieved overnight.  I think that his regime has got off to a good start; the management / coaching team we've assembled is pretty impressive considering where we are; the first few signings are promising (if not earth-shattering but then we are in the second tier and have been rubbish for a while so earth-shattering was never realistic); he seems to want to engage with the fans (maybe a bit too much); exposure in new "markets" appear to offer great opportunities for extending our support base, generating new revenue streams / opportunities and potentially stealing a march on new prospects / players; etc. etc.  However, they are nothing more than the first baby steps on a long journey.  Promising steps (in my opinion) but baby steps all the same.

As I said I don't really care how much money Xia does / does not have - so that whole argument seems pointless.  If he has no money but successfully delivers against the success criteria I mentioned then that doesn't diminish the success.  I appreciate that people will say that he needs money to invest in the club - but you can build a massively successful business without a huge amount of initial capital.  Bill Gates and Paul Allen were far from billionaires when they founded Microsoft - didn't stop them from creating one hell of a company. Indeed I don't want to be in a position where we're doomed if our owner ever decides to sell / leave the club because no-one else can afford to take us over. 

The whole net spend debate is also (in my view) equally pointless as it immediately penalises an owner / businessman who is able to sell players / assets for more than they are worth and buys players / assets for less than they might be worth.  Similarly there is no point spending £30m net if you haven't improved the team at all and have over-spent doing so.  No doubt some will say - yeah but Xia "promised" a transfer kitty of £20m, £30m, £50m or whatever.  Building a successful / better team for less than that shouldn't diminish the success - just as spending £65m to do so wouldn't be seen as being better.

Similarly - I don't really care whether we have to sell the players who were so **** last season before we replace them with better players - just so long as we do replace them (or suddenly realise their potential - for those that have any) and that by the end of the season the new team has achieved what we wanted them too.  2 months ago I was hoping for a mid-table finish - its our finishing position that counts rather than where we may be after 7-10 matches.  We could lose 4 or 5 of those games but be clearly developing into an effective team and be in a better state for achieving our target than winning 6 or 7 games but being awful, disjointed and just plain lucky.  Yes I would have liked to have had all our signings in place for the start of pre-season - but name 1 club in Europe who achieved that at any point in the last 20 seasons let alone a club that was in as bad a state as we were at the end of the previous season and who were in the position of changing ownership at the same time.

Finally, I get why people might be concerned about protecting the integrity of the club.  I do care about how ethical our owner is and that the values he holds / respects are aligned to those of our club.  If we achieve great success and then find out that our achievements were built on immoral / illegal foundations then that destroys our success (just look at any sportsperson who has won medals by taking drugs as an example of what I mean).  It will take time, transparency and actions to determine whether ANY new owner delivers on this.  In this regard I don't have any more / any less confidence in Xia at this stage than I would in any other new owner and just like anyone else he needs to earn my trust over a period of time.  I've not seen anything thus far that makes me doubt that Xia is anything but a decent guy - but then I also get that others might be more suspicious (and that that suspicion may or may not prove to be valid or misplaced in the future).

In summary, I am feeling much more positive than I was a couple of months ago.  My initial impressions of Xia are pretty good - I think that there have been more positives to date than negatives.  However, I've been here before and I've seen supporters of other clubs be in a similar position under new owners only to then have their hopes and dreams smashed to pieces (or in some cases enhanced and dwarfed by reality).  It is almost certain that at times we (or most of us) will be proclaiming Xia as a hero, at times we (or most of us) will feel slightly ambivalent and at times we (or most of us) will be bemoaning him and calling for his head.  This is football after all, passions run deep and success/despair is rarely far away (although I've slightly forgotten what success feels like when it comes to Villa!!). 

[Hoof hearted]

13 minutes ago, dounavilla said:

You had me at hello!

[Hoof hearted]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

I wouldnt say negative but after our last 2 owners I dont think its unfair to find some Villa fans sceptical and edgy about it

After the last 2 owners I'm surprised you can find any Villa fans full stop.