Relegation thread 2016/17

[Mantis]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

If a takeover does not happen then IMO relegation again is nailed on.

If a takeover does happen then it will still be tough.  A mere takeover is a not a panacea to all our ills,  we have loads and loads of issues all created by the owner and all needing resolving before we can even think about getting back into the premier league.  That is why delays,  and lets face it we have not capitalised at all on the last 6 weeks,  are going to harm us further.

I'm sorry but that's pure hyperbole. It's not as if things will stay exactly the same with regards to the playing staff if there's no takeover. I think people underestimate just how hard it is to go down in that league. Not saying it isn't possible but people saying "relegation is nailed on if there's no takeover" are being just as absurd as those saying we'll definitely walk the league (not that many have been saying that).

No a takeover wouldn't be the answer to everything but if they make the right decisions a strong push for promotion is certainly not out of the question.

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't think a takeover is "close". At least, I don't trust anything I am hearing, we've heard it all before. So much ITK bullshit. Even IF it is true, Randy has history of **** it all up at the last minute, so faith is not something that comes easily to me where he is concerned. At all, in fact. 

Are you also suggesting we should keep shtum until the club is sold? I asked this before, how long do we wait? Until July? August? 6 months? A year? 10 more?

I'm not full of doom and gloom bud. I can see light at the end of the tunnel IF were continue to stand up for ourselves and don't accept the bullshit.

I'm simply no longer willing to hide from what I see, our magnificent football club in free fall. 

It's not even ITK bullshit though is it? It's stuff from the club this time. After the last few summers I'm not betting on anything but there pretty clearly is something going on.

No I'm not, all I'm saying is that some people are being a bit OTT with their predictions.

And who's hiding from what's going on?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

@Mantis

What is coming from the club? The same noises we heard 2 years ago. Yes, something is going on, but rather than go round in circles I'll defer to my other posts in this thread as to why I have no faith in them to get it done. I would absolutely love to be surprised. 

As to "who is hiding" I won't go into much detail but as part of AVPG you would not believe the amount of resistance we faced. Even right up to the very end. The evidence is still out there. 

[Mantis]

9 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

@Mantis

What is coming from the club? The same noises we heard 2 years ago. Yes, something is going on, but rather than go round in circles I'll defer to my other posts in this thread as to why I have no faith in them to get it done. I would absolutely love to be surprised. 

As to "who is hiding" I won't go into much detail but as part of AVPG you would not believe the amount of resistance we faced. Even right up to the very end. The evidence is still out there. 

To be fair, I don't remember hearing this sort of talk from the club two years ago. I don't have a great deal in the people calling the shots but at the same time Lerner also wants out.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 minute ago, Mantis said:

To be fair, I don't remember hearing this sort of talk from the club two years ago. I don't have a great deal in the people calling the shots but at the same time Lerner also wants out.

Maybe it was a year ago, I've been told my timeline is wrong before!

That was the core of the resistance we faced - "he already wants out". Given that he suddenly seems remotivated, clearly he didn't want out badly enough. We will soon know if he's willing to bend this time. 

[Mantis]

19 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Maybe it was a year ago, I've been told my timeline is wrong before!

That was the core of the resistance we faced - "he already wants out". Given that he suddenly seems remotivated, clearly he didn't want out badly enough. We will soon know if he's willing to bend this time. 

Again a year ago I don't remember hearing these noises from the club.

In fairness, just because people may disagree with you on methods doesn't mean they're blind to the situation.

[PieFacE]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Veretout and Gil arguably Jack as well havent really shown a thing to say they will be OK in Championship. We need a new goalkeeper, 3 defenders, 3 midfielders, winger and a striker and maybe mix them with Under 21s

Neither did Barry Bannan, but he's been one of the best players in that league. Barry Bannan.

[KHV]

1 minute ago, PieFacE said:

Neither did Barry Bannan, but he's been one of the best players in that league. Barry Bannan.

Bannan showed much more than Veretout and Gil, they are both shit. You could argue too that he showed more than Grealish, at least Bannan put some effort in and looked interested.

[PieFacE]

Just now, KHV said:

Bannan showed much more than Veretout and Gil, they are both shit. You could argue too that he showed more than Grealish, at least Bannan put some effort in and looked interested.

Well if you genuinely believe what you've just typed then fair enough.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

28 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Again a year ago I don't remember hearing these noises from the club.

In fairness, just because people may disagree with you on methods doesn't mean they're blind to the situation.

I don't think you understood the point. They weren't just disagreeing with our methods. They were disagreeing that there was/is a problem in the first place. They still are. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Mantis]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't think you understood the point. They weren't just disagreeing with our methods. They were disagreeing that there was/is a problem in the first place. They still are. 

What have they actually been saying? I find it hard to believe that anybody would dispute that Lerner is an issue.

[KHV]

12 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Well if you genuinely believe what you've just typed then fair enough.

Veretout is atrocious, Gil is wildly over rated by Villa fans, fact is he really isn't very good and as for Grealish, well he played about 5 good games last season, turned up for 45 mins against Birmingham City this season and has been a grade A prick the rest of the time

[PieFacE]

4 minutes ago, KHV said:

Veretout is atrocious, Gil is wildly over rated by Villa fans, fact is he really isn't very good and as for Grealish, well he played about 5 good games last season, turned up for 45 mins against Birmingham City this season and has been a grade A prick the rest of the time

I disagree on all fronts but hey ho. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

29 minutes ago, Mantis said:

What have they actually been saying? I find it hard to believe that anybody would dispute that Lerner is an issue.

He's trying to sell, he's been trying to sell for years, what's the point. Support the team on the pitch you ****... Or stop going...

Then we had all the new board - give them time, Lerner has stepped back, Hollis is in charge now. Little has come to save us. Don't worry about Krulak, he's just there to keep an eye on things for Randy.

Now I'm reading similar. That we will be sold soon, don't worry about it, everything will be fine once we get a new owner, new board, new manager and a dozen new players. 

I'm not aiming that at you in particular. This is all documented on Twitter, Facebook, the AVPG thread on here. The various comments on the various articles written on the Mail website in particular. 

Honestly, tons of resistance. It surprised me equally as much as it delighted me the amount of people who were, eventually may I add, willing to jump on board. 

This is all off topic anyway and to be honest, I don't have much more to add except to say yes, I'm extremely concerned we will slip back into the shell from which we rose unless we take a more cynical view of him. It's the very least he has earned from us. 

Edit - I hope nobody takes that as a moan. I love our support to death and I was only trying to answer the question. At a guess I would say it was 20-30% of people reacting that way. Different people each time of course and very difficult to gauge at all times. 

Edit 2 - in most of the polls ran over the course of the protests it was a 60/40 split in favour each time. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, KHV said:

Veretout is atrocious, Gil is wildly over rated by Villa fans, fact is he really isn't very good and as for Grealish, well he played about 5 good games last season, turned up for 45 mins against Birmingham City this season and has been a grade A prick the rest of the time

And yet, in the worst season Aston Villa have ever had in the top flight, in just this one season, Jordan Veretout has got more assists (5) in 25 games than Barry Bannan got in 64 games (4) and Carles Gil has scored more goals in 23 games (2) than Barry Bannan got in, again, 64 games (1).

Honestly - some people

[KHV]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

And yet, in the worst season Aston Villa have ever had in the top flight, in just this one season, Jordan Veretout has got more assists (5) in 25 games than Barry Bannan got in 64 games (4) and Carles Gil has scored more goals in 23 games (2) than Barry Bannan got in, again, 64 games (1).

Honestly - some people

There is more to being a midfielder than that. Veretout doesn't track back, doesn't tackle and is lazy, he spends most of his time being a total passenger ball watching.You would expect a lot more effort from a player with a price tag not far off £10m. Gil is powder puff and largely anonymous 99% of the time, he scored a couple of decent goals but has no strength or pace. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by KHV

[poitier]

4 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Neither did Barry Bannan, but he's been one of the best players in that league. Barry Bannan.

Is it possible that Bannan has improved? I was never a big fan of his, but he has looked pretty decent when I have seen him for Sheff Weds.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

30 minutes ago, KHV said:

There is more to being a midfielder than that. Veretout doesn't track back, doesn't tackle and is lazy, he spends most of his time being a total passenger ball watching.You would expect a lot more effort from a player with a price tag not far off £10m. Gil is powder puff and largely anonymous 99% of the time, he scored a couple of decent goals but has no strength or pace. 

 

 

Veretout was bitterly disappointing after a solid middle. He then appeared to down tools with the rest of them. He can ping a ball though and I don't think he's lazy as such, I think he looked shell shocked. Mentally weak. 

I can see ability in Gil which he does show from time to time and at the very least he moves across the line. I'd not accuse him of hiding, he's always involved. However most of the time that's not necessarily a good thing, because he does absolutely nothing of note with the ball. He just shuffles 5 yards and passes it wide to another pointless 'footballer'. 

In a better side both of them might be assets. However, we don't have a better side. Relying on players like them, I'll include Grealish, Westwood and Gana in this too, to be the core of such a side will fail. I'm certain of that. 

We need 2 midfielders. Minimum. We need 2 strikers. We need 2/3 defenders and we need a goalkeeper. That's without anyone of note leaving. That's just to 'compete' at the top end. I'm struggling to see the argument for less. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[dounavilla]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

And yet, in the worst season Aston Villa have ever had in the top flight, in just this one season, Jordan Veretout has got more assists (5) in 25 games than Barry Bannan got in 64 games (4) and Carles Gil has scored more goals in 23 games (2) than Barry Bannan got in, again, 64 games (1).

Honestly - some people

[KHV]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Veretout was bitterly disappointing after a solid middle. He then appeared to down tools with the rest of them. He can ping a ball though and I don't think he's lazy as such, I think he looked shell shocked. Mentally weak. 

I can see ability in Gil which he does show from time to time and at the very least he moves across the line. I'd not accuse him of hiding, he's always involved. However most of the time that's not necessarily a good thing, because he does absolutely nothing of note with the ball. He just shuffles 5 yards and passes it wide to another pointless 'footballer'. 

In a better side both of them might be assets. However, we don't have a better side. Relying on players like them, I'll include Grealish, Westwood and Gana in this too, to be the core of such a side will fail. I'm certain of that. 

We need 2 midfielders. Minimum. We need 2 strikers. We need 2/3 defenders and we need a goalkeeper. That's without anyone of note leaving. That's just to 'compete' at the top end. I'm struggling to see the argument for less. 

It's a big rebuild. I cant see us being anywhere near a promotion push. There is just too much wrong at Villa and not enough time to do it. I agree 100% with what you have said in terms of what we need. Its basically a whole new team 

 

[praisedmambo]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

And yet, in the worst season Aston Villa have ever had in the top flight, in just this one season, Jordan Veretout has got more assists (5) in 25 games than Barry Bannan got in 64 games (4) and Carles Gil has scored more goals in 23 games (2) than Barry Bannan got in, again, 64 games (1).

Honestly - some people

How about they're all shit?