a m ole Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Seeing the fuss over him on here by a few makes me want Pearson more. Mm. I'm sure when we win the European cup again, TRO can have his fairytale and I'll be eating humble pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rob182 Posted April 17, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 17, 2016 Some people are clearly missing the point. No one, from what I've seen, is saying that Pearson's character is the sole reason we don't want him. It's that he's not that good a manager, and therefore his negatives aren't worth the hassle for a pretty average manager with a pretty average record. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 17, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2016 It's interesting to me too that we seem to be putting in place a football board that are going to be making decisions on the direction of the club, the types of players we sign and a number of things that would be in the remit of the old school manager. There seems to be a feeling that the football board is us adopting a back-to-basics old fashioned approach to how football clubs should work - the way we tried it didn't work, so we're going back to what we know - that's simply not true, if anything we're pushing further into the modern method, but with more (and hopefully better) people. What that does mean is that we're after a figurehead-coach - not an old school manager - the next manager won't have the kind of control that say, O'Neill had or that managers in the past had - it will be interesting to see how much influence is carried by the board and how much by the manager going forwards, and the manager we choose might tell us a little about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Absolutely Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 When a journalist asked Ron Saunders if he he felt (with 2 or 3 games to go, IIRC) Villa would go on to win the 1981 title, he said, 'do you want to bet against us?' Bit arrogant, no? Perhaps the kind of comment some posters feel would bring Villa into disrepute? Yet he delivered the title and formed the basis for more. Some posters here give no credit to Pearson and all to Ranieri.ho built the team. That arrogant statement is hardly comparing to putting your hands around an opposition player during a game or calling a journo a 'prick' at a press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 17, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Some people are clearly missing the point. No one, from what I've seen, is saying that Pearson's character is the sole reason we don't want him. It's that he's not that good a manager, and therefore his negatives and worth the hassle for a pretty average manager sigh a pretty average record. I'm still trying to figure out how he is not that good a manager though? Oh right, I guess the promotions through the leagues were down to the manager before him, and the miracle escape and team foundation were set by by Ranieri before he got there... Oh just remembered nah that is down to his backroom staff, which as I said if is the case we need to start hiring backroom staff instead of manager... Edited April 17, 2016 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Some people are clearly missing the point. No one, from what I've seen, is saying that Pearson's character is the sole reason we don't want him. It's that he's not that good a manager, and therefore his negatives aren't worth the hassle for a pretty average manager with a pretty average record. But Rob, what about Cloughie? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Ticket prices for next season should be interesting. I recall asking Charles Krulak about them when we were struggling under Houllier. Krulak said that he believed the season tickets would remain the same due to there being extra games in the Championship. If so, attendances will be fun (not) to see next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Those two are the same point in a lot ways. Pearson's character will have a direct affect on his chances of success. The media don't like him, and they have the ability to influence the perception of him, his teams and his results. A section of the fanbase won't like him and that means that when he (like any manager inevitably will) has a run of poor results, he'll find himself criticised and under pressure and some of the players won't like him, either because they're cosseted prima donnas or because they respond better to the carrot than the stick, they'll also make life difficult. His ability to be liked directly affects his chances of success - in fact, in the modern era, the ability to have a character that represents the club and leads the way in setting behaviours and expectations is a key part of the modern job - coaches do most of the coaching, a huge part of the managers job is to motivate the club and the fans as much as it is to motivate the players. I accept you reasoned argument OBE....but I disagree with elements of it. Firstly Nigel Pearson to my knowledge has no adverse from players he has managed at the clubs he has been at.....for sure they all have odd ones. secondly, as sections of the fanbase all have their choices so it would be naive to believe 100% will be behind 1 Man.....not since Martin O'Neill ( and that has its own story) has that happened. Thirdly, Winning motivates everybody, even the tea lady Fourth, Nigel Pearsons character will only affect his chances of success if folk let it......You could be Lord Fauntleroy or the nicest man on the planet.....but if you are not winning, cases get built against you. IMO we are looking far too deep and far too many what if's We have all sorts of scenario's of late even the fans singing a managers name at his current club( of that moment), when we were in talks to sign him.....and oh how that worked out. The point I think is been missed here.....The posters defending Pearson are not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread or that we are categorically convinced he is the right man, we may have a hunch but that all. What we are saying is the vitriol of his character condemnation is unfair in the light of so many other managers having indiscretions and loads we don't know about. Edited April 17, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Some people are clearly missing the point. No one, from what I've seen, is saying that Pearson's character is the sole reason we don't want him. It's that he's not that good a manager, and therefore his negatives aren't worth the hassle for a pretty average manager with a pretty average record. Getting Leicester promoted and keeping them up is better than what other candidates have done recently. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 3 hours ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said: Person's (Championship) Leicester were not a 'budget' squad when they broke the rules and had an unfair advantage over their rivals. What they did once they were in the PL is neither here nor there: the promotion success is undermined by the squad having had an unfair advantage. Pearson's record elsewhere is abysmal at best and one decent run in a relegation battle is hardly strong enough evidence that he will be a success. He is a gamble and, added to his off-the-field antics, is not one worth taking. That's just not true though is it? 'Average' maybe, certainly not 'abysmal at best'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Some people are clearly missing the point. No one, from what I've seen, is saying that Pearson's character is the sole reason we don't want him. It's that he's not that good a manager, and therefore his negatives aren't worth the hassle for a pretty average manager with a pretty average record. I don't think we are missing the point.....I think you have added balance to it.....which is welcome from me. If you are saying he is not good enough.....I have to accept your opinion. but its one I don't share, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Who cares who it will be honestly? Lerner has appointed what 5 managers now or is it 6 ive lost count. Each one of them equally shit. Why does him now appointing another one after taking us to the championship now suddenly now supposedly give me hope for the future? We will be very lucky to stay in the division next year the state were in i honestly believe that. A lot of people have this romantic view hat going down is maybe what we needed and we can "rebuild" and what other 'for effect' word you want to use. I obviously have my preferences but under Lerner we arent going anywhere fast no matter who is the manager. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Just now, Cliffy Biro said: Who cares who it will be honestly? Lerner has appointed what 5 managers now or is it 6 ive lost count. Each one of them equally shit. Why does him now appointing another one after taking us to the championship now suddenly now supposedly give me hope for the future? We will be very lucky to stay in the division next year the state were in i honestly believe that. A lot of people have this romantic view hat going down is maybe what we needed and we can "rebuild" and what other 'for effect' word you want to use. I obviously have my preferences but under Lerner we arent going anywhere fast no matter who is the manager. It's a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: It's interesting to me too that we seem to be putting in place a football board that are going to be making decisions on the direction of the club, the types of players we sign and a number of things that would be in the remit of the old school manager. There seems to be a feeling that the football board is us adopting a back-to-basics old fashioned approach to how football clubs should work - the way we tried it didn't work, so we're going back to what we know - that's simply not true, if anything we're pushing further into the modern method, but with more (and hopefully better) people. What that does mean is that we're after a figurehead-coach - not an old school manager - the next manager won't have the kind of control that say, O'Neill had or that managers in the past had - it will be interesting to see how much influence is carried by the board and how much by the manager going forwards, and the manager we choose might tell us a little about that. I think the problem is when you are successful the old system of the manager running everything works well. When you have a kaleidoscope of a system like ours when nobody knows what the hell is going on and there are advisors to the advisors.....its difficult to know what to address. We just need a good strong manager with an owner who can trust him and hold his nerve in supporting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 17, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, TRO said: secondly, as sections of the fanbase all have their choices so it would be naive to believe 100% will be behind 1 Man.....not since Martin O'Neill ( and that has its own story) has that happened. And this is the difficult thing, it's going to be really difficult to find a man that the fans like. The one defining characteristic of our new board is that they seem hell bent on building a bridge to the fans, so you'd expect a populist choice - the defining thing about Villa fans is that we don't really like anyone. It's the big puzzle and the one they'll need to work hardest to solve - someone is going to have to come in and be both charming and successful. Quote Thirdly, Winning motivates everybody, even the tea lady And herein lies the problem with Pearson - he put together a balanced team that were decent, it was maybe missing one or two components that Ranieri added, but it was talented - that's credit to his eye for a player and his ability to build a side, for me his biggest positives. However, he took that side on a losing run of the type we're very used to - he couldn't motivate them and he couldn't get them to win. Ranieri bought them pizza, became the avuncular figure that looked after them and has them top of the league. Quote Fourth, Nigel Pearsons character will only affect his chances of success if folk let it......You could be Lord Fauntleroy or the nicest man on the planet.....but if you are not winning, cases get built against you. Sometimes you don't have to be losing to have a case built against you, sometime you just need the right friends - take a look at Harry Redknapp, a manager that the game has passed by with a history of slightly unusual transfers and team building that did as much for him and a couple of agents as it did for his teams - the press love him, he's our 'Arry, he can do no wrong, he gets long honeymoons and positive reporting, when Harry loses his rag with a player, we don't get to know. The reason? Because he's always got a minute for the press, he's always got a quote and he's sometimes got a story - he's their mate and they love it. Pearson is the opposite of that, and it matters. Take a look at how a manager that managed us this year with friends in the press and one that managed us this year without friends in the press is talked about on Match of the Day, and in the Sunday Papers - you'll see what I mean. For Pearson, the knives will be out from day one - that's not fair or nice, but it's true. Quote The point I think is been missed here.....The posters defending Pearson are not saying he is the best thing since sliced bread or that we are categorically convinced he is the right man, we may have a hunch but that all. TRO - if you're not categorically convinced Pearson is the right man, then the sun don't rise in the morning and the moon don't shine at night! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 17, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2016 Just now, TRO said: I think the problem is when you are successful the old system of the manager running everything works well. I can't think of a team that are successful with the old system of the manager running everything - it just doesn't exist any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: I can't think of a team that are successful with the old system of the manager running everything - it just doesn't exist any more. I'd also add that the old system of a manager running everything has contributed to our demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Cliffy Biro said: Who cares who it will be honestly? Lerner has appointed what 5 managers now or is it 6 ive lost count. Each one of them equally shit. Why does him now appointing another one after taking us to the championship now suddenly now supposedly give me hope for the future? We will be very lucky to stay in the division next year the state were in i honestly believe that. A lot of people have this romantic view hat going down is maybe what we needed and we can "rebuild" and what other 'for effect' word you want to use. I obviously have my preferences but under Lerner we arent going anywhere fast no matter who is the manager. Said much the same thing myself . . . I'm going to try not to be bothered by whoever we appoint, because they're guaranteed to have been sacked by Halloween so it just isn't worth the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: And this is the difficult thing, it's going to be really difficult to find a man that the fans like. The one defining characteristic of our new board is that they seem hell bent on building a bridge to the fans, so you'd expect a populist choice - the defining thing about Villa fans is that we don't really like anyone. It's the big puzzle and the one they'll need to work hardest to solve - someone is going to have to come in and be both charming and successful. And herein lies the problem with Pearson - he put together a balanced team that were decent, it was maybe missing one or two components that Ranieri added, but it was talented - that's credit to his eye for a player and his ability to build a side, for me his biggest positives. However, he took that side on a losing run of the type we're very used to - he couldn't motivate them and he couldn't get them to win. Ranieri bought them pizza, became the avuncular figure that looked after them and has them top of the league. Sometimes you don't have to be losing to have a case built against you, sometime you just need the right friends - take a look at Harry Redknapp, a manager that the game has passed by with a history of slightly unusual transfers and team building that did as much for him and a couple of agents as it did for his teams - the press love him, he's our 'Arry, he can do no wrong, he gets long honeymoons and positive reporting, when Harry loses his rag with a player, we don't get to know. The reason? Because he's always got a minute for the press, he's always got a quote and he's sometimes got a story - he's their mate and they love it. Pearson is the opposite of that, and it matters. Take a look at how a manager that managed us this year with friends in the press and one that managed us this year without friends in the press is talked about on Match of the Day, and in the Sunday Papers - you'll see what I mean. For Pearson, the knives will be out from day one - that's not fair or nice, but it's true. TRO - if you're not categorically convinced Pearson is the right man, then the sun don't rise in the morning and the moon don't shine at night! Ha Ha ...liked that, difficult to disagree with your reasoning.....especially about ' Arry....loved that very apt summary. What I am saying OBE is I would be happy with Nigel or David Moyes.....I like David too, but not had so much opportunity to defend him. I think Nigel would turn us around, with all the necessary support in place, but they all need that. But no one can be 100% sure any manager will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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