blandy Posted January 3, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: out pendanted ..I feel so ashamed right now You're welcome. I'm sure you'll get me back in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 The t&cs for that ferry company that doesn't have any ferries that totally, totally, definitely are going to save us from no deal chaos have been copied from a takeaway delivery website. They definitely aren't trying anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Quote Other signs that the website may have been cobbled together included a “portal login” section that was an image of username and password boxes rather than an actual means of logging in. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/03/brexit-freight-ferry-firm-appears-all-geared-up-to-deliver-pizzas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 You do look at that whole thing and wonder how long until that company vanishes and all the money with it. And which of Grayling's mates has involvement in the business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chindie said: The t&cs for that ferry company that doesn't have any ferries that totally, totally, definitely are going to save us from no deal chaos have been copied from a takeaway delivery website. They definitely aren't trying anymore. Standard government policy of awarding a tender to the lowest bidder and then act surprised when the project runs over time/budget or the company turn out to be incompetent blaggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 3, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Chindie said: You do look at that whole thing and wonder how long until that company vanishes and all the money with it. And which of Grayling's mates has involvement in the business. There's history there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) May option unpopular in Tory three-way Quote More than half of Conservative party members want Theresa May’s Brexit deal to be rejected in favour of leaving the EU with no deal, according to a survey. The poll, funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC), found a majority of the Tory rank and file are convinced that leaving the EU without a deal is better than the prime minister’s Brexit plan. In a three-way referendum, with the options of leaving without a deal, staying in the EU or leaving with May’s deal, 57% preferred leaving without a deal. Only 23% of members said they would vote for May’s deal in a three-way referendum. The findings were released on Friday by the ESRC-funded party members project, run from Queen Mary University of London and Sussex University. Just 29% of Tory members would vote for May’s deal, compared with 64% who would vote to leave without a deal, if there was a two-option referendum. Among party members, opposition to the deal negotiated by their own leader outweighs support by a margin of 59% to 38%. More members (53%) think May’s deal does not respect the 2016 EU referendum result than the 42% who think it does. ...more on link Edited January 4, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 56 minutes ago, snowychap said: May option unpopular in Tory three-way I'd be interested to know some of the demographic breakdowns of tory party members by gender/age/wealth etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, snowychap said: May option unpopular in Tory three-way Just to put Tory Party membership in perspective, they represent approximately 0.3% of the eligible to vote population of the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 4, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, desensitized43 said: I'd be interested to know some of the demographic breakdowns of tory party members by gender/age/wealth etc. They are on average older, whiter and more well off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Just to put Tory Party membership in perspective, they represent approximately 0.3% of the eligible to vote population of the UK that's 48% less than a Russian Bot presumably though as we like to stereotype ALL Tories as evil baby eaters , the .3% that actually bother to be members reflect the view of all Tory voters therefore it's probably a good indication of the 13.5 million that voted Tory in 2017 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, tonyh29 said: that's 48% less than a Russian Bot presumably though as we like to stereotype ALL Tories as evil baby eaters , the .3% that actually bother to be members reflect the view of all Tory voters therefore it's probably a good indication of the 13.5 million that voted Tory in 2017 ? I'm fairly confident the similarity of views between Tory voters and Tory members is significantly divergent. I really don't think any correlation is that tight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: Just to put Tory Party membership in perspective, they represent approximately 0.3% of the eligible to vote population of the UK But 100% of those eligible to vote in any future leadership election (when whittled down to two & if it gets that far), no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, snowychap said: But 100% of those eligible to vote in any future leadership election (when whittled down to two & if it gets that far), no? Exactly. Which is why a second referendum will not happen with a Conservative government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Stephen Bush providing a pretty good argument of why a second referendum in this Parliament is basically impossible here: 'We know that a substantial minority of Labour MPs would vote against one even if Jeremy Corbyn were to whip in favour of it, which is in and of itself a pretty big “if”. We know that most Conservative MPs would vote against one even if the government were to facilitate it. We know, too, that unless the executive facilitates the passage of a referendum bill then it won’t happen. What this poll confirms is that supporting a second referendum means the end of any Conservative with ambitions to lead the party. That makes it very, very hard to see how a Tory-led government would ever facilitate one – or how it could survive long enough to pass it.' from: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/poll-conservative-members-shows-why-people-s-vote-so-unlikely 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 4, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Stephen Bush providing a pretty good argument of why a second referendum in this Parliament is basically impossible here: 'We know that a substantial minority of Labour MPs would vote against one even if Jeremy Corbyn were to whip in favour of it, which is in and of itself a pretty big “if”. We know that most Conservative MPs would vote against one even if the government were to facilitate it. We know, too, that unless the executive facilitates the passage of a referendum bill then it won’t happen. What this poll confirms is that supporting a second referendum means the end of any Conservative with ambitions to lead the party. That makes it very, very hard to see how a Tory-led government would ever facilitate one – or how it could survive long enough to pass it.' from: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/poll-conservative-members-shows-why-people-s-vote-so-unlikely The logic works, of course. The thing missing from his thought process is the alternatives (I haven't looked at the big article). May's deal is a non starter. No deal is a non-starter. So at some point before the 90 odd days left run out, there has to be something else. There has to be a cataclysm of some sort which renders the current assumptions and understandings obsolete. The least unobvious of those possibilities is enough Labour, Tory, SNP & other MPs having enough voting power to create a new option - either a ref, or some other off the shelf version of Brexit (e.g Norway), probably after a hauling back of the A50 expiry process. Basically "normal" MPs hold the key here. The likes of Corbyn and May are completely gaga and incompetent that they aren't able to lead or resolve, or rectify. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, blandy said: The logic works, of course. The thing missing from his thought process is the alternatives (I haven't looked at the big article). May's deal is a non starter. No deal is a non-starter. So at some point before the 90 odd days left run out, there has to be something else. There has to be a cataclysm of some sort which renders the current assumptions and understandings obsolete. The least unobvious of those possibilities is enough Labour, Tory, SNP & other MPs having enough voting power to create a new option - either a ref, or some other off the shelf version of Brexit (e.g Norway), probably after a hauling back of the A50 expiry process. Basically "normal" MPs hold the key here. The likes of Corbyn and May are completely gaga and incompetent that they aren't able to lead or resolve, or rectify. The flaw in your assumptions is that 'No deal is a non-starter'. It isn't; it's the default outcome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 4, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Exactly. Which is why a second referendum will not happen with a Conservative government. If a referendum happens, it will happen before a change in leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, bickster said: If a referendum happens, it will happen before a change in leadership I agree that's the only way it's possible, but I think the notion of May suddenly backing it is pretty much unrealistic at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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