Chindie Posted September 24, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2019 The never ending parade of Brexit Party figures the BBC has pulled out of it's arse that all say the same empty shit before faux smiles and ersatz furrowed brows is maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Documents show that Geoffrey Cox's legal advice was that prorogation was "lawful and within the constitution". Probably a bit embarrassing for the Attorney General to be told unanimously by the Supreme Court that he doesn't know the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Just now, ml1dch said: Documents show that Geoffrey Cox's legal advice was that prorogation was "lawful and within the constitution". Probably a bit embarrassing for the Attorney General to be told unanimously by the Supreme Court that he doesn't know the law. He's your fall guy. Will resign this evening probably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: Revoke is what they will campaign on at the next election, they will still press for a referendum until that point as there's no real democratic way of achieving revoke without an election. It's nowhere near as bizarre as Labour's shifting goalposts with added unicorns policy that you appear to understand perfectly If you can understand 'we support a referendum unless we win a majority, in which case we will revoke', you can understand 'we will negotiate a deal and then put it to a confirmatory referendum versus remain'. The second is no more complicated than the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: He's your fall guy. Will resign this evening probably. Yup. Certainly on the first bit. Hopefully the rest of the cabinet will take note of how easily you might find yourself chucked under the bus to provide cover for the Prime Minister's failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 24, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: If you can understand 'we support a referendum unless we win a majority, in which case we will revoke', you can understand 'we will negotiate a deal and then put it to a confirmatory referendum versus remain'. The second is no more complicated than the first. I understand the concept perfectly, it's the mixed messages of the various players that shift the goalposts, none more than the Messiah himself (He's a very naughty boy) I also think it's utterly bonkers. he will not renegotiate a deal that suits anybody, the policy only delays everything with yet more delays and some added delays. It's not a policy that the majority of MPs, members or their voters want and again the message changes by the hour Edit: and the fundamental difference is that the LibDems understand they need a declared stance for an election, Labour appear to want to have a democratic mandate to fudge forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 24, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, Chindie said: The never ending parade of Brexit Party figures the BBC has pulled out the executive canteen that all say the same empty shit before faux smiles and ersatz furrowed brows is maddening. FTFY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, bickster said: I understand the concept perfectly, it's the mixed messages of the various players that shift the goalposts, none more than the Messiah himself (He's a very naughty boy) I also think it's utterly bonkers. he will not renegotiate a deal that suits anybody, the policy only delays everything with yet more delays and some added delays. It's not a policy that the majority of MPs, members or their voters want and again the message changes by the hour I'd probably describe the current Labour position as a solid, coherent proposal to take into the 2017 General Election. Unfortunately, the sands have shifted quite a lot in both directions since then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 24, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: If you can understand 'we support a referendum unless we win a majority, in which case we will revoke', you can understand 'we will negotiate a deal and then put it to a confirmatory referendum versus remain'. The second is no more complicated than the first. You haven't finished the second one HV. There's the whole business about not stating or deciding which of the two hypothetical options they will prefer or recommend. LDs: Right now, as an oppo party - support ref, campaing to remain. LDs if Gov't: Revoke. Lab: Right now, as an oppo party, support a Labour Brexit or a Referendum, maybe, or an election, but not right this moment, but they do want an election, then win the election, then spend 6 months negotiating with Brussels, then hold a referendum on whatever that results in - the Labour Brexit, we assume - then refuse to say whether they are in favour of their own deal or remain, then see what happens. Yeah, both the same level of complexity, for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, blandy said: You haven't finished the second one HV. There's the whole business about not stating or deciding which of the two hypothetical options they will prefer or recommend. Why does it matter which of the two options they will prefer or recommend? Conservative cabinet ministers campaigned on both sides in 2016; this isn't a particularly complicated concept. You are an intelligent man, you don't need the Labour Party to instruct you which way to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) why is YouGov polling on whether people agree with the supreme court decision? Like why is Dave the cement-eater* encouraged to get angry about an issue he is wholly unqualified to come to a decision on? No-one apart from those judges is there. Maybe a handful of other very experienced judges not yet on the SC might have some insight? But otherwise - stop polling people with zero qualifications. The mentalists now think the jury are all "bias". Righto, damn our sovereign judiciary. * for the sake of clarity I don't think all brexiteers are morons, I am specifically referencing the illiterate dipshits who are simply so dug down into their position based on "things that affect my side" they can't accept any other reality. Edited September 24, 2019 by Rodders 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 24, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Why does it matter which of the two options they will prefer or recommend? Whats the point in negotiating a deal you don't believe in. If you don't believe in it, why should anyone else? (You as in them, not actually you if you get me) We negotiated this deal we thinks its shit so don't vote for it in the referendum we promised you Edit: I forgot to say what a load of arse biscuits that is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 24, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 Just now, Rodders said: why is YouGov polling on whether people agree with the supreme court decision? Like why is Dave the cement-eater encouraged to get angry about an issue he is wholly unqualified to come to a decision on? No-one apart from those judges is there. Maybe a handful of other very experienced judges not yet on the SC might have some insight? But otherwise - stop polling people with zero qualifications. The mentalists now think the jury are all "bias". Righto, damn our sovereign judiciary. Set up by Two prominent Tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 46 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Documents show that Geoffrey Cox's legal advice was that prorogation was "lawful and within the constitution". Probably a bit embarrassing for the Attorney General to be told unanimously by the Supreme Court that he doesn't know the law. he was partly right though anyone disputing this was doing so for political reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, bickster said: Whats the point in negotiating a deal you don't believe in. If you don't believe in it, why should anyone else? (You as in them, not actually you if you get me) We negotiated this deal we thinks its shit so don't vote for it in the referendum we promised you Edit: I forgot to say what a load of arse biscuits that is If you have a referendum, it has to be between some form of Leave and Remain. It can't be between Remain and Remain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: he was partly right though I'm never sure if you're being serious! It doesn't matter which way you voted in a non-binding referendum 3 years ago...it's a fundamental question of right or wrong. Lying is wrong, lying to the Queen is very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted September 24, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Lying is wrong, lying to the Queen is very wrong. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I'm never sure if you're being serious! It doesn't matter which way you voted in a non-binding referendum 3 years ago...it's a fundamental question of right or wrong. Lying is wrong, lying to the Queen is very wrong. .... ( i wasn't) I didn't think the ruling was about lying to the Queen though , that was the words of some SNP bloke ... the ruling was that he had undermined the sovereignty of parliament, that the "effect was extreme" and it had been done "without reasonable justification". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 24, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2019 The ruling doesn't note that he had lied, but it's the implication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 24, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted September 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Why does it matter which of the two options they will prefer or recommend? Well, I think (and maybe it's just me) that the Prime Minister, the Government of the Day, the Opposition and Leader of the Opposition - all those types of people - people either in power, or who hope to be in power are able, capable of making an assessment of what they believe the best path for the country, the best option on an issue is. Brexit and the consequences is the biggest, most significant issue of all, and a political leader who is unable, unwilling or incapable of both forming a judgement and then putting forward that judgement, explaining why is not fit to lead."I don't know" or "I do know, but I'm not going to say" are just ludicrous positions for a Prime Minister to hold. Further, as Chrisp pointed out last week, trying to negotiate whilst failing to say whether whatever (hypothetical) deal he might get would be something he'd actually go on to support in a referendum is the worst negotiating position you can hold. TL;DR Why does it matter if a politican is capable of making a decision? that's what they're for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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