Dr_Pangloss Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Referendums are the practice of an idiocracy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 Unelectable 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 16, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 The dishonest effwits. Talk about hard of thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumblerseven Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Referendums are the practice of an idiocracy. Oh yah few years ago we had a referendum in my country lithuania about foreigners buying our land.Referendum initiators nationalists pro russians anti EU people made arguments that if we sell land to eu citizen from germany that is not lithuanias land but germanys or smth stupid like that. The whole thing was to sabotage our eu membership because not selling land to eu citizen would contradict eu rules. We would be getting fines from eu or even drop out of eu. The whole thing was very big because if you do referendum in lithuania you have to collect 300 000 signatures its huge in country where we have 2.5 milion people. Our former resident Landsbergis was in debate show with referendum initiators and i will never forget what he told them. He said you making these referendums and votes without fully understanding the consequences.Then you ask our goverment to fix the whole mess you put us in and if our goverment dont fix the whole mess and dont fix it quickly you will get angry and you will protest and you will want to overthrow whole goverment. The whole thing was surreal and that referendum failed and if i hear referendum im becoming super nervous because theres a lot of stupid people you will never know. Edited December 16, 2018 by Tumblerseven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Unelectable Too much of a 'loony left' element to them and would be considered 'crack pot' in almost every key area from economic to social policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 16, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said: making these referendums and votes without fully understanding the consequences.Then u ask our goverment to fix the whole mess u put us in and if our goverment dont fix the whole mess and dont fix it quickly u will get angry and u will protest and u will want to overthrow whole goverment. That's a wise thing to say. Whoever is the next Government in the Uk is going to get a massive amount of flak for whatever the end result of Brexit is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: *Edit - a look through the places I'd normally look finds nothing, if I can find it, I'll come back to you.* Is it the indicative votes thing that's talked about in this article? Quote ... Reports emerged this morning that de-facto deputy Prime Minister David Lidington is urging fellow Cabinet members to back a series of “indicative votes” in the Commons. The options would include the PM’s deal, quitting the EU without a deal, leaving on the same terms as Norway or holding a fresh Brexit referendum - which Mr Lidington is said to believe would win the day. ... Elsewhere, Education Secretary Damian Hinds also refused to rule out an “indicative votes” process to break the deadlock - arguing going through the options would win MPs over to the PM’s deal. He told Sky News this morning: “People need to get beyond everybody’s idea of ‘what’s my first choice’ because there isn’t a majority for any of those first choices.” He added that MPs needed to take a “balanced kind of approach” by eliminating the options based on whether they are workable or have support in the Commons. According to the Sunday Times, Mr Lidington and Mr Hinds are among six Cabinet ministers pushing the “indicative votes” plan amid a split at the top of Government over whether there should be a second referendum. ... I certainly don't think it's a bad idea to have Parliament look at and vote on all of the options but I can't see the government (for which read Mrs May) going for it. If these votes were to happen then there ought to be a clear indication of the process for taking them in to consideration before they happen. Unfortunately, much like the first referendum, any future referendum, the various votes on various parts of the Brexit process in Parliament, &c. I doubt there would be. We'd probably just see arguments about what these votes meant after they'd taken place which would just use up more time. Edited December 16, 2018 by snowychap Forgot the link in the initial post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Not sure if this has already been posted but a bit of light Sunday reading for anyone looking to peep out of their bubble. Well worth the time investment in my view. And I read it with a 2hrs sleep hangover! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Tumblerseven said: The whole thing was surreal and that referendum failed and if i hear referendum im becoming super nervous because theres a lot of stupid people ull never know. 4 Sadly, we already know. Now the only way to fix the first one is to have a second one as the two main parties appear to want to fight between themselves over a shrinking daily minority section of the electorate, leaving the majority of the electorate with no one to represent their view Politics is absolutely surreal in the UK at the minute We have the three main separatist parties (one each for Northern Irland, Scotland and Wales) campaigning to stay in the EU and as a result keep the union of the UK together whilst the Unionists parties (The DUP and the Conservatives) in their own ways are campaigning to leave the EU which will ultimately lead to the dissolution of the Union. Whilst the main opposition party is doing very little opposing of the government and again actively campaigning against the best interests of their base by wanting to leave, which will ultimately be to the detriment of jobs, incomes and the working people of the country who they claim to represent Politics in this country can never get more surreal 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 16, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) If there is another referendum and 'remain' isn't an option, I won't be voting. Edited December 16, 2018 by mjmooney 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 minute ago, mjmooney said: If there is another referendum and 'remain' isn't an option, I won't be voting. From what I can see moon man, there would possibly be 3 options: 1. Remain in EU 2. Maybot's hashed deal 3. No deal I can only see remain winning in that scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jon said: From what I can see moon man, there would possibly be 3 options: 1. Remain in EU 2. Maybot's hashed deal 3. No deal I can only see remain winning in that scenario No no, you forgot the Labour Deal they haven't negotiated but will be campaigning for anyway. Absolute spanners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Chindie said: The 'People's Vote' thing is just marketing. They did some research and apparently that played most successfully. One of the big figures behind the campaign actually prefers 'Final Say' but that is less successful in the marketing It's really shit marketing IMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, mjmooney said: If there is another referendum and 'remain' isn't an option, I won't be voting. I would argue the spoilt paper with remain scrawled on it is the only solution to that conundrum Abstentionism in this particular instance legitimises the opposing view by default 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 16, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 minute ago, bickster said: you forgot the Labour Deal they haven't negotiated but will be campaigning for anyway. Absolute spanners No, No, let me be very clear. What Labour has said is that May's proposed deal, which involves an initial bag o'shite, followed by a transition period, will be voted down and then Labour will use the transition period, which will have been voted down and thus not exist, to re-negotiate so that the bag o' shite which is such because the EU won't allow their rules to be exempted for a third state (the UK), by asking the EU to exempt their rules for a third state, (the UK). It will be a jobs first Brexit, in which the same contradictions the tories have will miraculously not count anymore, because Jeremy's got a potting shed and isn't an immigration obsessed Maidstone numpty, but is instead an Islington numpty with a penchant for 1970s bedsit revolutionaries. What could possibly go wrong? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Jon said: From what I can see moon man, there would possibly be 3 options: 1. Remain in EU 2. Maybot's hashed deal 3. No deal I can only see remain winning in that scenario It's tough to design it in a way that isn't incredibly flawed. My initial thought it it'd need to be a 2 part question. Do you want to leave or remain. If you want to leave, how, May's deal, or no deal. But even then, if Leave wins slightly, and it's a narrow margin for no deal, it may well be that even the people that voted leave with May's deal don't want to crash out. Just the 3 options seems a bit flawed though. Look at the Villa badge questionnaire. Most of us wanted Aston Villa or Aston Villa FC, by a clear margin, but we ended up with AVFC. Edited December 16, 2018 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It'd need to be a 2 part question, IMO. Do you want to leave or remain. If you want to leave, how, May's deal, or no deal. Single Transferable Vote is the best / most democratic option. Two-stage questions are meaningless and over complicated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumblerseven Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) I think some damage is done by this referendum and activation of article 50. If Uk stays i personaly would like to see your veto gone and you taking the euro i think that would be reasonable because by these actions you weakened EU and euro you are disruptive element in the union. Do you guys think that would be reasonable or no? Edited December 16, 2018 by Tumblerseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 16, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said: I think some damage is done by this referendum and activation of article 50. If Uk stays i personaly would like to see your veto gone and u taking the euro i think that would be reasonable because by these actions u weakened EU and euro u are disruptive element in the union. Do u guys think that would be reasonable or no? If we stay, we stay on the terms we currently have, so the veto will remain If we leave and rejoin at a later date the veto will be gone and we'll have to adopt the Euro 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 What I read somewhere yesterday is that Scottish Conservatives are thinking of openly pushing for another referendum. They favour two questions, first is the most important "Brexit or no brexit?" and the second "May's deal or not May's deal?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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