The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Genie]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not a chance, it takes two to tango and the EU are seriously not going to help the Tory Party. If we elect a different party who is less hostile to the EU then change may happen but even then it will be slow because it's the EU and they have no reason to rush anyway because they got the best of the Brexit deal

The EU did a new deal for NI. The Tories have had (not very) secret talks internally. There must be conversations happening with the EU behind the scenes. Now scrapping of EU laws isn’t going to happen as promised. 
I await the news of a “UK deal” in the next 12 months. 

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

The EU did a new deal for NI. The Tories have had (not very) secret talks internally. There must be conversations happening with the EU behind the scenes. Now scrapping of EU laws isn’t going to happen as promised. 
I await the news of a “UK deal” in the next 12 months. 

Won't happen, honestly. They did a NI deal because it directly affects a member country in a rather unique situation. The rest of the UK and the Tory party? It's not really in their interests to help them get out of the hole they've dug, they'd much rather deal with a different party where there is more trust.

[Demitri_C]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not a chance, it takes two to tango and the EU are seriously not going to help the Tory Party. If we elect a different party who is less hostile to the EU then change may happen but even then it will be slow because it's the EU and they have no reason to rush anyway because they got the best of the Brexit deal

Well surely the 52% or whatever the figure was who vited out will be hapoy as they wanted a hostile relation with the EU as otherwise why would uou have voted out!

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I cant see it myself thia has got labour comfortable win all over it for me

You just need to look at local elections for last few years. Usually that pattern follows in a GE

Unfortunately for a GE the leadership polls (as in how people view leaders) are often more reflective. Rightly or wrongly a lot of people vote for who they want as PM in a GE rather than a party.

Unfortunately the view between who would make a better prime minister, Rishi or Kier, is far closer than is comfortable

[mjmooney]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Unfortunately for a GE the leadership polls (as in how people view leaders) are often more reflective. Rightly or wrongly a lot of people vote for who they want as PM in a GE rather than a party.

Unfortunately the view between who would make a better prime minister, Rishi or Kier, is far closer than is comfortable

I suspect that this is true. While @bickster's point about the younger voters demographic is well made, a lot of their Labour support was on a wave of enthusiasm for Corbyn. From an admittedly small sample, I'm currently detecting a lot of disillusionment with Starmer's version of Labour. They won't vote Tory, obviously, but I can see many of them staying away from the polling booths next time out. 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

I suspect that this is true. While @bickster's point about the younger voters demographic is well made, a lot of their Labour support was on a wave of enthusiasm for Corbyn. From an admittedly small sample, I'm currently detecting a lot of disillusionment with Starmer's version of Labour. They won't vote Tory, obviously, but I can see many of them staying away from the polling booths next time out. 

Surely though we are not accounting for the tory voters who are also the same with the direction sunaks  taken the party though? Alot of them eitehr wont vote or vote for another party that isnt labour.

18 minutes ago, blandy said:

Eurozone countries do. The UK, way back when, contributed to helping Portugal and Ireland when they had problems. But not Greece and I’m certain that the non Eurozone EU states are excluded from any liability to contribute to bailouts via the EU. The IMF though, we do contribute to, I think. But anyway, it was one of the Brexit lies that was spread by the various Tory/Faragey throbbers.

Well it wasnt completely untrue then i just chose the wrong counrty to give as a example

[Wainy316]

Blaming the EU instead of the Tories for their ills.  Thick bastards.

[StefanAVFC]

The nobbers are out in force this morning that Sunak won't get rid of 2000 EU laws. I bet they can't name a single one.

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The nobbers are out in force this morning that Sunak won't get rid of 2000 EU laws. I bet they can't name a single one.

I bet there’s some about workers rights, environmental standards, human rights, right to strike, right to protest in there. Without knowing the (negative) impact they will still want them scrapped.

Why stop at pumping shit into our rivers when we could get rid of the pesky laws stopping us putting nuclear waste in our waterways too?

Edited May 11, 2023 by Genie

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Surely though we are not accounting for the tory voters who are also the same with the direction sunaks  taken the party though? Alot of them eitehr wont vote or vote for another party that isnt labour.

After the clown show that has been the previous couple of prime ministers, Tory voters will see Rishi as a nice safe pair of hands.

And the polls reflect that

[Mozzavfc]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

I suspect that this is true. While @bickster's point about the younger voters demographic is well made, a lot of their Labour support was on a wave of enthusiasm for Corbyn. From an admittedly small sample, I'm currently detecting a lot of disillusionment with Starmer's version of Labour. They won't vote Tory, obviously, but I can see many of them staying away from the polling booths next time out. 

I'd expect a lot of the young vote going to greens if they don't go labour

[Wainy316]

On 10/05/2023 at 13:04, Jonesy7211 said:

I really wish Lindsay Hoyle would tell Rishi to answer the non-Tory questions properly. PMQ's is an utter farce, and incredibly useless in its current format. I know he's a Labour MP and this could go in that thread, but he doesn't hold the PM to account at all.

Is there a rule in place that stops the speaker from pulling a PM up on avoiding questions?

He must have read your post because he just suddenly grew a backbone...

 

[Genie]

14 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

He must have read your post because he just suddenly grew a backbone...

 

It’s great to see, shame he is inconsistent with his bollockings. 

[bickster]

Perfectly normal behavior

EDIT: The Clevelands Police's statement is hilariously full of obvious holes as well

FIrstly, its not their job to investigate election leaflets, we have the toothless Electoral Commission for that and secondly they interviewed three separate people to discover who published the leaflet... erm election agents names are on all election material and thirdly they concluded after this that no crime had been committed, well presumably they could have done that just by reading the leaflet as the alleged crime appeared to be something printed on the leaflet

[AshVilla]

On 11/05/2023 at 10:36, StefanAVFC said:

The nobbers are out in force this morning that Sunak won't get rid of 2000 EU laws. I bet they can't name a single one.

What about the bendy banana one.....

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, AshVilla said:

What about the bendy banana one.....

Yeah, and selling our pints in kilos or something. 

[legov]

On 11/05/2023 at 16:40, mjmooney said:

I suspect that this is true. While @bickster's point about the younger voters demographic is well made, a lot of their Labour support was on a wave of enthusiasm for Corbyn. From an admittedly small sample, I'm currently detecting a lot of disillusionment with Starmer's version of Labour. They won't vote Tory, obviously, but I can see many of them staying away from the polling booths next time out. 

Way I see it the same thing that's been happening in Australia is happening in the UK. The conservatives have gone too right-wing and that basically means a lot of naturally conservative-leaning constituencies moving away from the tories but not necessarily voting for Labour either. Probably the same thing is happening in America too but because theirs is a two-party system the votes that go to the Lib Dems basically go to the Democrat.

Have felt for a while now that there's a fundamental political realignment going on globally and we are in the middle of it.

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by legov

[Paul33]

The GE will be won - as always - by the party that pitches the most tents in the middle ground. It may be a largely silent majority but the majority of voters are middle ground voters as Corbyn found out ..... we are not an extreme left or right country albeit the noisy extremists might have you believe that.

The Tories are disjointed at the moment. Sunak is solid, safe but boring and I'm not convinced any more than 50% of Tories even like him. Starmer is probably the best Labour leader for quite a long time but I think the middle ground voters remain unconvinced that he actually leads a party that is still hugely influenced by left wing sources. Is he really just tolerated by the left rather than supported by them ?

In my humble opinion, the next GE result will be heavily influenced by events that have yet to happen and the likelihood is that the current "voter opinions" owe more to the usual mid-term "grass must be greener" views than any major GE voting attentions. 

[bickster]

 I think that’s the second poll out with fieldwork since the local elections and they both show Labour up / Tories down

[mjmooney]

52 minutes ago, Paul33 said:

Starmer is probably the best Labour leader for quite a long time but I think the middle ground voters remain unconvinced that he actually leads a party that is still hugely influenced by left wing sources. Is he really just tolerated by the left rather than supported by them ?

I know quite a few on the Corbynite left wing of the Labour party, and they vehemently hate Starmer, probably even more than they hate the Tories.