Genie Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 21 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The man who smugly said it was a new era, keeps the allegations of corruption coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ender4 Posted October 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) Liz Truss has blamed Kwarti for the abolishing of the 45% tax rate according to Sky News. Wasn’t her idea apparently. Stabbed him in back already Edited October 2, 2022 by ender4 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 16 hours ago, blandy said: I wouldn't describe it as "flat". It's not been particularly dynamic, or as great as some other nations, I take your point there, but still... FWIW, I'm not even sure that "growth" ought to play nearly such a large part in politics and thinking as it does, anyway. I mean while the planet burns, wildlife goes extinct, sewage pumps into rivers and seas, the air we breathe is full of toxins, there's plastic everywhere...but "growth" ONS Seeing how flat the growth-rate was under both parties, it did strike me that the claim that Tories do better economically was nonsense, and was probably all media chaff. It seems likely from the evidence that it is the financial institutions who manage the economy, while the parties are left to make minor tweaks for what they think is political gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted October 2, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2022 17 hours ago, blandy said: FWIW, I'm not even sure that "growth" ought to play nearly such a large part in politics and thinking as it does, anyway. I mean while the planet burns, wildlife goes extinct, sewage pumps into rivers and seas, the air we breathe is full of toxins, there's plastic everywhere...but "growth" Absolutely this, until we find balances between the values of all of the different parts of our society and learn the importance of measures that include more than just a percentile of gain for a corporate holding, we will find ourselves heading more and more certainly into a very difficult and dangerous future. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 2, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 These people on the precipice of either freezing or starving this winter have been worrying over nothing all along. It is this easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: These people on the precipice of either freezing or starving this winter have been worrying over nothing all along. It is this easy. It's just totally illogical. As well as cruel. They're basically saying salaries for cleaners, carers etc won't go up so people can freeze/starve or get a better job. Let's follow the logic that people should get a better job, who will clean streets and look after the elderly? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, bickster said: Inner monologue "........" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 2, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: It's just totally illogical. As well as cruel. They're basically saying salaries for cleaners, carers etc won't go up so people can freeze/starve or get a better job. Let's follow the logic that people should get a better job, who will clean streets and look after the elderly? Elon Musk has our backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: It's just totally illogical. As well as cruel. They're basically saying salaries for cleaners, carers etc won't go up so people can freeze/starve or get a better job. Let's follow the logic that people should get a better job, who will clean streets and look after the elderly? We’ll use the cheap foreign labour from the EU…. oh… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 2, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2022 5 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: Seeing how flat the growth-rate was under both parties, it did strike me that the claim that Tories do better economically was nonsense, and was probably all media chaff. It seems likely from the evidence that it is the financial institutions who manage the economy, while the parties are left to make minor tweaks for what they think is political gain. I don't want to, er, labour the point, but it's not "flat". The reason why I point this out is not just because there are other factors to take into account, but because the differences in the road of the graph I posted are very significant to people's lives. I mean at the start of '88 growth around 8% and then falling to -2% in 18 months is a big change. The just above zero growth at the end of the Major Gov't's period helped change the country (via Labour getting elected, and the good things [and bad] they did). The global crash and the big decline in GDP again changed the country and brought about austerity - that change from +3 or thereabouts to -7, that 10% swing is and was a huge in the consequences for the country and individual people. But back to your comment about the financial institutions, yes, and in a way, though her plans are barking mad, Truss and Kwarteng (and the BoE) being in effect forced to make or change policy or take action by the markets reaction to their (mad) budget is the cart driving the horse. It would be better of course if we had honest competent leaders and politicians, but still, the markets also shouldn't be such a factor in the nation's policies. main thing is what I already said - the economy is pretty much the only, or very much the dominant, measure used as to how things are going, and that's completely wrong. And it's much more a tory factor and has become as just the accepted measure on which gov't are judged by the media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) Fabricant doing something decent by telling the truth. Edited October 2, 2022 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Fabricant doing something decent by telling the truth. If he’d have gone along with it the lack of evidence would have caught with him eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 2, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2022 erm... no one mentioned this yet? This isn't what a democracy looks like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bickster said: erm... no one mentioned this yet? This isn't what a democracy looks like. There was a time that would have been posted much sooner, or even made the main stream news. The Tories have lowered the bar so low though that a world class limbo dancer wouldn't get under it, so things like this have just become what is expected from them/the norm. It is shameful. Edited October 2, 2022 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 I still remember the good old days when Boris would be trying to give jobs to women who would give him jobs. Simpler times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, HKP90 said: Isn't that essentially insider trading? Nah. Insider trading is when you get told specific information in advance and make money off it. If Kwarteng is meeting people after his budget and they're telling him to keep crashing the economy, it's just corporate lobbying. Same as if a fishing company met him and said we should loosen our restrictions on the size of the nets fishing trawlers are allowed to use. Maybe what they are saying is true, but either way their motivation for saying it should be pretty obvious. (It's worth noting that lobbying itself isn't necessarily bad. Like, trucking companies pointing out to the government that the post-Brexit immigration reforms would screw over the HGV industry and paralyse the country is also "lobbying". Really lobbying is just communication, which can be both good and bad depending on the content.) What's more concerning, really, is the fact that Kwarteng allegedly met his former hedge fund boss Crispin Odey during the leadership contest for lunch and after that lunch Odey put a big bet against the pound. It's pretty much impossible to prove anything dubious happened, because Kwarteng wouldn't have needed to say anything specific - simply that he and Truss genuinely believed that tax cuts were needed - and at that point Odey would know that sterling would nosedive as soon as the budget came out. So the Lib Dem call for an investigation is good politics. Almost certainly no crime has been committed, but the story won't sit right with anyone that reads it so it's smart to try and get it as much airtime as possible. Edited October 2, 2022 by Panto_Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 21 hours ago, ender4 said: Liz Truss has blamed Kwarti for the abolishing of the 45% tax rate according to Sky News. Wasn’t her idea apparently. ...and they're scrapping that bit of the "plan" already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, ml1dch said: ...and they're scrapping that bit of the "plan" already. It will be sold as we're the party who listens to you. Like they're benevolent and it's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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