Davkaus Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 £15 minimum wage? Wow. They're ambitious! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Davkaus said: £15 minimum wage? Wow. They're ambitious! £31.2k per year minimum wage That would entail serious pay rises in every sector and inflation as a result would be stratospheric Thats £200 per year below the current average wage for full time employees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2021 If the tories and Labour are to both defend a lower minimum wage than £15 - then they sound alike. Doesn't really matter if £10 is correct, or £13 is correct - we will see the gap between the tories and Labour smudged further. This is Starmer's desired hunting ground no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, bickster said: £31.2k per year minimum wage That would entail serious pay rises in every sector and inflation as a result would be stratospheric Thats £200 per year below the current average wage for full time employees Isn't that what David Cameron and John Redwood said about the NMW in 1998? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, darrenm said: Isn't that what David Cameron and John Redwood said about the NMW in 1998? It probably was, I'm not against the minimum wage, quite the opposite. I'm even in favour of raising it But raising the min wage to £15 from £8.91 is somewhat of a different proposition to that situation. I think £11 an hour is probably the right ballpark to be aiming at right now. That's still pushing it towards an extra £100 a week for a £40 hour week. That is realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 I'm all for bumping it up but yes, £15 would put us comfortably at the highest NMW in the world. Someone has got to be the highest and I wouldn't be against it being us, but bumping it up 68% in one fell swoop seems a risky proposition. One thing that definitely needs looking at is the different age bands for NMW. Apprenticeships make sense (but need extra protections), but there's no sense in a 20 year old being able to be paid 25% less than a 23 year old - we've discussed this before and it's been brought up that in practice, few employers have the systems in place to pay the lower rate so just pay everyone the full rate, in which case, great, let's scrap it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I'm all for bumping it up but yes, £15 would put us comfortably at the highest NMW in the world. Someone has got to be the highest and I wouldn't be against it being us, but bumping it up 68% in one fell swoop seems a risky proposition. One thing that definitely needs looking at is the different age bands for NMW. Apprenticeships make sense (but need extra protections), but there's no sense in a 20 year old being able to be paid 25% less than a 23 year old - we've discussed this before and it's been brought up that in practice, few employers have the systems in place to pay the lower rate so just pay everyone the full rate, in which case, great, let's scrap it. It is for 2024-2025 though bear in mind. The last manifesto called for a £10 minimum wage, and that's what Labour want to be introduced right now, but by 2024 the NMW will have risen naturally to above £10 and the UK Living wage will likely be above £11 and London's above £12, so by the time 2024 comes around realistically it should be around £12 NMW at the lowest IMO. I think £15 is a bit high, it seems to stem from one of my pet hates which is just straight up stealing left wing ideas from America without thinking how it applies to the UK (see - Defund the Police), but it's a decent starting point to negotiate down from considering it's talking about a few years down the line. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said: it seems to stem from one of my pet hates which is just straight up stealing left wing ideas from America without thinking how it applies to the UK (see - Defund the Police) yes, exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Interesting article by a guy who was an advisor to Miliband, Corbyn then Starmer https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/28/keir-starmer-leadership-labour-leader-left Quote Unfortunately, the shortfall between what was promised and what has happened since raises some very big questions for thousands on the left and soft left who voted for Starmer to be leader. It is very hard for me to say this because in politics people aren’t supposed to admit they got something wrong. But while the unifying pitch that Starmer put to the membership was open, conciliatory and correct – and explains the big vote he secured – it has not been delivered. It sadly proved to be the wrong thing, for me at least, to have supported that leadership campaign. From my own perspective it was a mistake and ultimately a political dead end. Starmer’s leadership constructed an alliance and then unravelled it. You cannot promise unity then deliberately pick fights and expect people to say that is OK. It’s not. The bit in bold is why I'm so angry. I feel utterly cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: You cannot promise unity then deliberately pick fights and expect people to say that is OK. It’s not. I'd be interested to hear which fights he thinks Starmer picked? It's seemed to me that absolutely most of the fights have been picked for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, darrenm said: Interesting article by a guy who was an advisor to Miliband, Corbyn then Starmer https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/28/keir-starmer-leadership-labour-leader-left The bit in bold is why I'm so angry. I feel utterly cheated. Good article - sums it all up, from someone who was in the middle of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, bickster said: I'd be interested to hear which fights he thinks Starmer picked? It's seemed to me that absolutely most of the fights have been picked for him Really? Where do I start? I'll reply later because I'm currently on the bike. Indoors of course, in case Keir's out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 28, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: Really? Where do I start? I'll reply later because I'm currently on the bike. Indoors of course, in case Keir's out I imagine we'll have mentions of Long-Bailey, Corbyn and the Forde Report, you'll probably even chuck in an Andy McDonald for a bit of current flavour. And I won't agree with you on any of them My point wasn't to you Darren, I wondered what Simon Fletcher thought as he doesn't manage to mention a single one of the fights that Starmer has picked despite saying that he has. (Current rule change debate aside but that wasn't why he left) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 28, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 28, 2021 Starmer has done very little but pick fights since he became leader - his first 18 months in the job can be characterised by him ruthlessly removing as many of those people that disagree with him on just about anything by whatever means he has at his disposal - it's been a war that he's waged on his own party. One day I'm sure he'll focus on more normal stuff, like believing in something or having policies, but for 18 months it's been nothing but a hatchet job where he's put all of his energies into destroying the Labour party as it existed when he took over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 28, 2021 What the left of the party should do is make some friends in the vocal media, then do a few public resignations, force a leadership contest, keep talking to the media about how crap Starmer is, a few more resignations, and then find something to smear over his name that doesn't wash off, and keep talking about it and reminding the media about it... There must be something in his prosecution background that smells funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 John Bercow, is he the leader they need to grab the attention of the British public and stop the tories getting away with… everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, Genie said: John Bercow, is he the leader they need to grab the attention of the British public and stop the tories getting away with… everything? No, and even letting him address the conference (as "comrades", no less) was a fairly stupid idea. Bercow in any sort of senior position immediately alienates about half of voters. He should have kept his head down after standing down as well, because jumping in to the Labour party really does undermine his actions in the role as speaker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Classy stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 29, 2021 A summary of the main points of the speech for those not able to tune in: I'm nice My parents were nice There are some nice people in the audience I'm nice Finally the clarity we've been searching for on the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 29, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 29, 2021 F*** me! Something like a policy has appeared after 18 months! "Under Labour mental health support will be available in less than a month." I'm breaking out the champagne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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