blandy Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: The document, which is a pretty depressing 850 pages or so, can be found here: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/254736468835041280/698946398799790151/200329-Labour-Report-Final.pdf.pdf It doesn't work for me, that link, maybe it's my 'puter, maybe it's down, but anyway... In a way it's not surprising that in a deeply divided party the two factions have both been "at it" fighting and underhanding like rats in a sack. There are devious manipulators on both sides, and no shortage of them. It's also quite possible/probable/totally believable that each side will "play" the devious acts of their own as the acts of the other - for example, take the anti-semitism invests - one side stops (say) the investigations to make the other look bad / one lot says the other lot stopped it to make us look bad, when they didn't stop it at all/ both sides were at it - favoured souls let off or not investigated properly and the other lot putting a hidden spanner in the works. Starmer and Rayner have to purge all the wrongdoers, the incompetents, the manipulators. Easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 13, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2020 I remember people saying that the anti-Semitism debacle had been strung out and amplified by those that were rather happy to see it continue. I remember people mentioning this being told they were wrong. Amongst other things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Chindie said: I remember people saying that the anti-Semitism debacle had been strung out and amplified by those that were rather happy to see it continue. Definitely, you're right. I also remember plenty saying there was no problem and it was all made up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 13, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Definitely, you're right. I also remember plenty saying there was no problem and it was all made up. Not many here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, blandy said: It doesn't work for me, that link, maybe it's my 'puter, maybe it's down, but anyway... Still works for me? It starts a download, giving you the option to open or save the .pdf file. However, it's possible that it may not be around for long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, blandy said: Definitely, you're right. I also remember plenty saying there was no problem and it was all made up. I definitely said Corbyn wouldn't have it, elements of the party didn't have the bottle to join with him to battle the media and the AS was being blown out of proportion. Rather disgusted it was being blown up internally as well. It's one thing not to behind a particular leader it's another thing to be utter poison. All the parties were shit at the last election with the possible exception of the rank outsiders, and Covid's still well short of the austerity deathcount. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Given the factionalism, and the blatant trouble making, alongside some OTT lefty conspiracies it is no wonder Labour were deemed antisemitic as a whole - and it is important now that the shame of that and the affliction of that should dog those who caused all the trouble, the blame is theirs as much as anyone's. It is crucial for Starmer to clear out and start again - now is not the time for trade-offs - all trouble makers have to leave, regardless of which wing of the party they are on. I hope he has the balls to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Only just noted this part - here's Sam Matthews, who was one of the 'whistleblowers' on the Panorama programme about Labour anti-semitism, simply ignoring one case so concerning that the individual responsible was eventually referred to counter-terrorism police and prosecuted. I have put it in spoiler tags because it contains highly offensive anti-semitic language, so beware: Spoiler Edited April 13, 2020 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 44 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Still works for me? It starts a download, giving you the option to open or save the .pdf file. However, it's possible that it may not be around for long. I get Quote This site can’t provide a secure connection cdn.discordapp.com uses an unsupported protocol. on chrome and Safari, but even in a pandemic, there's no doubt better things to read on a bank holiday Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Xann said: It's one thing not to behind a particular leader it's another thing to be utter poison. All the parties were shit at the last election with the possible exception of the rank outsiders Absolutely right. The absolute state of things at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 30 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: successfully prosecuted Just so as not to jump the gun, the linked picture says charged. It appears as though he was charged/due to be charged on 25th March so the proceedings may well not have been completed yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Just so as not to jump the gun, the linked picture says charged. It appears as though he was charged/due to be charged on 25th March so the proceedings may well not have been completed yet. Thanks, I completely misread that. I've edited the post to reflect it. Ta again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 It's all gone predictably Life of Brian hasn't it. Religion and socialism suffer from the same splitter tendencies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 27 minutes ago, bickster said: It's all gone predictably Life of Brian hasn't it. Religion and socialism suffer from the same splitter tendencies With a shared blind faith in utopia and an ‘ends justifies the means’ worldview, it’s not so surprising really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Awol said: With a shared blind faith in utopia and an ‘ends justifies the means’ worldview, it’s not so surprising really. There's a bit of that, too. But I'm not totally convinced that socialism is any more "ends justify the means" than (say) Capitalism or any other creed, really. I think perhaps the thing is the whiff of hypocrisy from strong adherents to any political creed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 I think one half of the people involved would be deeply offended to be called 'socialists'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 13, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2020 Socialism is a dirty word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Awol said: With a shared blind faith in utopia and an ‘ends justifies the means’ worldview, it’s not so surprising really. Could equally be said of any creed to which people adhere rigidly - the lazy attack on 'socialism' is trite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I think one half of the people involved would be deeply offended to be called 'socialists'. Are we talkig about Momentum or Forward Momentum here? Which one's are the socialists? The Northern spliters or the London-centric ivory-tower original infiltraitors? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 TBF I was encouraged by this - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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