The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[snowychap]

you need look no further than David Blunkett .  Saturday after the result was saying that the party would unite and there would be no recriminations then yesterday saying he called on the party to give Corbyn and Watson 'more loyalty than either of them showed previous leaders'

Imagine that: a politician one can't trust. Who'da thunk it?

Edited September 14, 2015 by snowychap

[Awol]

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

I haven't spoken to anyone of any political persuasion who hates Corbyn. Have any of your Tory mates told you that's how they feel?

OK then, how about severely dislike. And with that I can include yourself, the 3 other usual suspects in this thread, and DC himself.

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

 

 

 

 

You've confused disagreent with dislike.  I think Corbyn is wrong but he's probably a very decent bloke, it's just politics not personal.  I think its a shame when people feel the two can't be separated - except for Blair, who should die horribly. 

[tonyh29]

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

I haven't spoken to anyone of any political persuasion who hates Corbyn. Have any of your Tory mates told you that's how they feel?

OK then, how about severely dislike. And with that I can include yourself, the 3 other usual suspects in this thread, and DC himself.

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

it would be very strange if they were to hate him based on what school he went to for example  ..nah nobody would ever do that

Just because I (facetiously) described a group as Etonian doesn't mean I have any feelings one way or the other for anyone who went there. Or have I missed something?

there is a sort of  humorous irony between your first statement and your second  but leaving that aside  ...suffice to say I don't severely dislike Corbyn and I've probably made zero references to him as a person  ... I've posted amusement at him becoming the leader and commented on some of his policies and I even defended him on the "women only trains" when it was clear that wasn't what he said 

 

so presumably I'm not one of the 3 usual suspects

 

 

[bickster]

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

I haven't spoken to anyone of any political persuasion who hates Corbyn. Have any of your Tory mates told you that's how they feel?

OK then, how about severely dislike. And with that I can include yourself, the 3 other usual suspects in this thread, and DC himself.

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

it would be very strange if they were to hate him based on what school he went to for example  ..nah nobody would ever do that

Just because I (facetiously) described a group as Etonian doesn't mean I have any feelings one way or the other for anyone who went there. Or have I missed something?

there is a sort of  humorous irony between your first statement and your second  but leaving that aside  ...suffice to say I don't severely dislike Corbyn and I've probably made zero references to him as a person  ... I've posted amusement at him becoming the leader and commented on some of his policies and I even defended him on the "women only trains" when it was clear that wasn't what he said 

 

so presumably I'm not one of the 3 usual suspects

 

 

TBH most of what has been reported in the press isn't actually what Corbyn said

[jon_c]

Talk of what school people went to, you know Corbyn went to a prep school too. 

[darrenm]

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

I haven't spoken to anyone of any political persuasion who hates Corbyn. Have any of your Tory mates told you that's how they feel?

OK then, how about severely dislike. And with that I can include yourself, the 3 other usual suspects in this thread, and DC himself.

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

 

 

 

 

You've confused disagreent with dislike.  I think Corbyn is wrong but he's probably a very decent bloke, it's just politics not personal.  I think its a shame when people feel the two can't be separated - except for Blair, who should die horribly. 

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

I haven't spoken to anyone of any political persuasion who hates Corbyn. Have any of your Tory mates told you that's how they feel?

OK then, how about severely dislike. And with that I can include yourself, the 3 other usual suspects in this thread, and DC himself.

Interesting how many Tories really hate him. Surely they should like him as he's obviously no threat to them?

it would be very strange if they were to hate him based on what school he went to for example  ..nah nobody would ever do that

Just because I (facetiously) described a group as Etonian doesn't mean I have any feelings one way or the other for anyone who went there. Or have I missed something?

there is a sort of  humorous irony between your first statement and your second  but leaving that aside  ...suffice to say I don't severely dislike Corbyn and I've probably made zero references to him as a person  ... I've posted amusement at him becoming the leader and commented on some of his policies and I even defended him on the "women only trains" when it was clear that wasn't what he said 

 

so presumably I'm not one of the 3 usual suspects

 

 

Fair enough. Please excuse my ignorance then.

I notice Murdoch has come out all guns blazing in the Sun this morning. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6637495/Corbyn-Britain-should-abolish-its-Army.html

LABOUR’S new leader Jeremy Corbyn wishes Britain would abolish its Army.

Mr Corbyn, 66, believes Britain and other countries should follow Carribean outpost Costa Rica by scrapping armed forces.

..

The remarks risk deepening the civil war threatening Labour over their leader’s opposition to Nato and Britain’s nuclear deterrent — and his sympathies for the IRA and Hamas.

Sinn Fein chief Gerry Adams was among the first to congratulate Mr Corbyn on his shock leadership win calling him a “good friend of Ireland”.

Of course, what he's actually said is nothing like that but that won't stop people swallowing it.

[sharkyvilla]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

No child should be given an advantage over any other child on the basis of their parents' wealth.  That such a situation is rarely challenged is **** depressing. That is what annoys people about schools like Eton, and the disproportionate representation of their pupils in public life, and the dull retorts that 'the best get the best education shocker' is a load of piss. It's an unfair system that benefits the well-off who grow up in a bubble before running the country with the aim of maintaining the privileges of the well-off. It's a shambles.

In the end, success should be earned by the individual and based on merit. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[tonyh29]

 

I notice Murdoch has come out all guns blazing in the Sun this morning. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6637495/Corbyn-Britain-should-abolish-its-Army.html

 

LABOUR’S new leader Jeremy Corbyn wishes Britain would abolish its Army.

Mr Corbyn, 66, believes Britain and other countries should follow Carribean outpost Costa Rica by scrapping armed forces.

..

The remarks risk deepening the civil war threatening Labour over their leader’s opposition to Nato and Britain’s nuclear deterrent — and his sympathies for the IRA and Hamas.

Sinn Fein chief Gerry Adams was among the first to congratulate Mr Corbyn on his shock leadership win calling him a “good friend of Ireland”.

 

Of course, what he's actually said is  nothing like that but that won't stop people swallowing it.

tbf , that's not just exclusive to Corbyn though is it .. you can partly blame social media for that but to be fair  it started way before that (see Marc Almond and swallowing it    legends that pre date the interweb )

 

[tonyh29]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

ah but unless your name is Diane Abbot , nowadays you send your kids to a state school to prove to the electorate that you are one of them  ... so you **** up your children's chances in order to win votes 

strange world we live in sometimes

[sharkyvilla]

No child should be given an advantage over any other child on the basis of their parents' wealth.  That such a situation is rarely challenged is **** depressing. That is what annoys people about schools like Eton, and the disproportionate representation of their pupils in public life, and the dull retorts that 'the best get the best education shocker' is a load of piss. It's an unfair system that benefits the well-off who grow up in a bubble before running the country with the aim of maintaining the privileges of the well-off. It's a shambles.

In the end, success should be earned by the individual and based on merit. 

i don't disagree with the premise, I just get wound up when people have a dig at people for the way they were educated when they had nothing to do with it, whether they're Corbyn or Cameron.  By all means have a pop if they choose to send their kids to private school, as it turns out Corbyn divorced his wife as she was sending their kid there, and Cameron has chosen state schools for his kids.

[PongRiddims]

Just caught up on thread, thanks all for explaining why the Guardian wasn't massively supportive of Corbyn, some very interesting points.

I have to say, Corbyn is one step closer for me to voting Labour again in the future. My concern with him, and any other left wing politics really, is how far the work/welfare policies go. A lot of left leaners seem to dislike success, which I can't understand, but I don't believe he's made any remarks about raising taxes for high earners as yet, just clamping down on tax evading and avoidance, is that correct? Also, I'm not against benefits or welfare but I think it needs a complete review and overhaul.

[Awol]

If money was no object (which it is) I'd definitely want my kids to have the best education available. Like the NHS the state education sector is Russian roulette based on your postcode. 

Why any parent would put their own political bias before trying to do all in their power to improve their child's life chances is inexplicable to me. "Why should my little Jonny have better opportunities than some kid from an inner city slum?" F*** off, life isn't fair, don't punish your kids for that fact because doing so won't change it.

[jon_c]

Having known people that have attended both state and private schools, it does by no means correlate to your intellect or standard of education. A good state school is a good school. 

The only thing I see in having gone private, is it is a marker of class status, and the advantages in Britain which that will give you.

If you want to work in politics, banking or the media, having a family member or friend in the business is the easiest way in. (look at Nigel Farage for example, straight from school to a well paid job in the city)

The second best way is an unpaid internship, and there aren't many working class young people who can afford to do that.

On Corbyn I don't care what school he went to. I was just pointing out you can't criticize the Tories for being Etonian, if he also went private.

However, personally I feel like I'm the only Tory hating leftie who doesn't like him.

Some of his policies are sound, others are what I'd expect from a first year politics student. Especially his forgiegn policies.

I see a lot a celebrities bigging him up on social media, how they don't mind if he isn't electable because we'll have a proper opposition. Well there not the ones that will be getting butt-f*cked by an extended term of Tory rule. I'd rather have a more centre ground Labour government, than a left wing opposition and a right-wing government in power any day.

 

[MakemineVanilla]

If money was no object (which it is) I'd definitely want my kids to have the best education available. Like the NHS the state education sector is Russian roulette based on your postcode. 

Why any parent would put their own political bias before trying to do all in their power to improve their child's life chances is inexplicable to me. "Why should my little Jonny have better opportunities than some kid from an inner city slum?" F*** off, life isn't fair, don't punish your kids for that fact because doing so won't change it.

The only way you can achieve an equality of outcome is to restrict the freedom of those with advantage from benefiting from that advantage.

This restricts the freedom of those with an advantage and therefore is not egalitarian.

So equality of outcome and egalitarianism are mutually exclusive.

[HanoiVillan]

Just caught up on thread, thanks all for explaining why the Guardian wasn't massively supportive of Corbyn, some very interesting points.

 

I have to say, Corbyn is one step closer for me to voting Labour again in the future. My concern with him, and any other left wing politics really, is how far the work/welfare policies go. A lot of left leaners seem to dislike success, which I can't understand, but I don't believe he's made any remarks about raising taxes for high earners as yet, just clamping down on tax evading and avoidance, is that correct? Also, I'm not against benefits or welfare but I think it needs a complete review and overhaul.

I think you're going to find that he is definitely and absolutely in favour of increasing taxes for high earners, though I'm sure he'd disagree with your characterisation of doing so as 'disliking success'. 

[HanoiVillan]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

ah but unless your name is Diane Abbot , nowadays you send your kids to a state school to prove to the electorate that you are one of them  ... so you **** up your children's chances in order to win votes 

strange world we live in sometimes

Is this you saying you think Diane Abbott was unfairly criticised for this? I don't understand why you mentioned it otherwise. 

[Awol]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

ah but unless your name is Diane Abbot , nowadays you send your kids to a state school to prove to the electorate that you are one of them  ... so you **** up your children's chances in order to win votes 

strange world we live in sometimes

Is this you saying you think Diane Abbott was unfairly criticised for this? I don't understand why you mentioned it otherwise. 

Presumably Tony was referring to the rank hypocrisy of preaching the gospel of comprehensive education for all while sending her own children to private school.

 

[tonyh29]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

ah but unless your name is Diane Abbot , nowadays you send your kids to a state school to prove to the electorate that you are one of them  ... so you **** up your children's chances in order to win votes 

strange world we live in sometimes

Is this you saying you think Diane Abbott was unfairly criticised for this? I don't understand why you mentioned it otherwise. 

Presumably Tony was referring to the rank hypocrisy of preaching the gospel of comprehensive education for all while sending her own children to private school.

 

as if I would 

[HanoiVillan]

I don't know why kids don't turn around and tell their parents to go screw themselves when told which school they're going to, as clearly if they're planning a career in politics it's only going to be held against them for life if they go to a posh one.  Heaven forbid people in high positions having in theory the best education you can get.

ah but unless your name is Diane Abbot , nowadays you send your kids to a state school to prove to the electorate that you are one of them  ... so you **** up your children's chances in order to win votes 

strange world we live in sometimes

Is this you saying you think Diane Abbott was unfairly criticised for this? I don't understand why you mentioned it otherwise. 

Presumably Tony was referring to the rank hypocrisy of preaching the gospel of comprehensive education for all while sending her own children to private school.

 

I have to admire conservatives for this. You've managed, totally successfully, to frame the oh-so-important issue of 'where politicians send their children to school' in such a way that it is literally impossible for any left-wing politician to win. I'm serious, it's diabolically brilliant. It's a three-step process, observe carefully how it's done:

1) State that public school is much better than state school in terms of educational outcomes. 

2) When a left-wing politician, like, say, Jeremy Corbyn wants to send his children to state school, you can say something like this: 'Why any parent would put their own political bias before trying to do all in their power to improve their child's life chances is inexplicable to me' (Awol, 1 hour ago)

3) When a left-wing politician, like, say, Diane Abbott chooses to send her children to private school, you can say something like this: 'Presumably Tony was referring to the rank hypocrisy of preaching the gospel of comprehensive education for all while sending her own children to private school' (Awol, 5 minutes ago)

As I say, you have to admire the brilliance of it.