markavfc40 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 hours ago, bickster said: If you expect either of those two to be contenders for the next Labour leadership election then it won't be happening any time this side of 2031 And in all likelihood that goes for any candidate. I actually hadn't realised Starmer is 61. He'll very likely be 62 by the time of the election which would make him the oldest Prime Minister upon appointment since Callaghan in 1976. If he remained Prime Minister until your date of 2031 he'd be the oldest serving Prime Minister since Churchill. Bit of useless, irrelevant bollocks for you. In my defence I am on a days leave with f all to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 44 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I actually hadn't realised Starmer is 61. He'll very likely be 62 by the time of the election which would make him the oldest Prime Minister upon appointment since Callaghan in 1976. If he remained Prime Minister until your date of 2031 he'd be the oldest serving Prime Minister since Churchill. Bit of useless, irrelevant bollocks for you. In my defence I am on a days leave with f all to do. If there was an election this year and he won and served a full 5 years and then won again and served another full 5 years and then won again and served another full 5 years and then won again and served another full 5 year he’d be the same age as Joe Biden is now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 27, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2023 Doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, magnkarl said: Don't see it personally. It's not like the muslim vote is ever going to go to the conservatives because of Israel. The Tories are ten times more supportive of Israel than Labour is. Honestly I wouldn’t agree with this in the slightest. EDIT: completely misread what you’d written and 100% agree with the bit in bold! Apologies. Edited October 27, 2023 by Thug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Chindie said: Doesn't matter. The worst politicians in the world are the ones who whisper to a journalist how they are THIS CLOSE to resigning on a point of principle only to do nothing. Either just do it, or stop trying to claim any emotional credit for something you're too cowardly to do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Thug said: Honestly I wouldn’t agree with this in the slightest. wow, I totally misread what @magnkarl wrote! 100% agreed. Lol. The point I was trying to make was that not voting Labour and voting a different party could potentially spread the anti-conservative vote about a bit, and keep the tories in charge? Haven’t really looked at the which seats are likely to be affected the most? Edited October 27, 2023 by Thug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, Thug said: wow, I totally misread what @magnkarl wrote! 100% agreed. Lol. The point I was trying to make was that not voting Labour and voting a different party could potentially spread the anti-conservative vote about a bit, and keep the tories in charge? Haven’t really looked at the which seats are likely to be affected the most? It could. However since that internet survey a few days ago there have been a number of elections that have happened, and it doesn't seem to have had any material impact on Labour's vote share. Some of them in areas with large Muslim communities. Also the national polls that have been released since don't seem to show any significant change. You'd think that if the UK's Muslim vote was deserting the Labour Party en masse that wouldn't result in Labour +0 or Labour +1 like most of them have. It's definitely going to have some impact. I just think that some isn't going to be all that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It could. However since that internet survey a few days ago there have been a number of elections that have happened, and it doesn't seem to have had any material impact on Labour's vote share. Some of them in areas with large Muslim communities. Also the national polls that have been released since don't seem to show any significant change. You'd think that if the UK's Muslim vote was deserting the Labour Party en masse that wouldn't result in Labour +0 or Labour +1 like most of them have. It's definitely going to have some impact. I just think that some isn't going to be all that much. I’m sick of the conservatives. I just want my vote to make a difference. I can’t stand Starmer, but my god Sunak and his cronies needs to be gone as a bigger priority. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Thug said: I’m sick of the conservatives. I just want my vote to make a difference. I can’t stand Starmer, but my god Sunak and his cronies needs to be gone as a bigger priority. Agree But dont think labour are gonna come save the day either. Its such a sad state of uk politics Anyone seen or heard from those lib dems? The libruary party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2023 **** lol What a shyster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Agree But dont think labour are gonna come save the day either. Its such a sad state of uk politics Anyone seen or heard from those lib dems? The libruary party Their time will come, soon enough “traditional” Tory voters will come to realise that liberal doesn't mean what they think it does (an insult for left wing) and that they've been liberals all along. I'm being serious btw, proper Liberalism is much more akin to One Nation Conservatism that it ever was to Labour. Labour is not and never has been a liberal party, the Tories have been. The LibDems really should concentrate on getting that message across instead of pulling stupid by-election stunts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 30, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 30, 2023 Quote Andy McDonald has been suspended as a Labour MP, after the party said he had made "deeply offensive" comments relating to the Israel-Gaza war. The MP for Middlesbrough used the phrase "between the river and the sea" in a speech at a pro-Palestinian rally. Critics of the chant argue it implicitly calls for the destruction of Israel. But Mr McDonald said his words were "a heartfelt plea for an end to the killings" in the region. He will now sit as an independent MP, pending an investigation. In his speech at a demonstration on Saturday, Mr McDonald, a former shadow minister under Jeremy Corbyn, said: "We will not rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea, can live in peaceful liberty." Beeb What a party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Chindie said: Beeb What a party. The Tory's have done exactly the same thing with Paul Bristow. British politics is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: The Tory's have done exactly the same thing with Paul Bristow. British politics is broken. They're not the same thing at all. Bristow's been removed from his (minor) Government job for publicly taking a position contrary to that of the Government. He's still a Tory MP. McDonald is no longer sitting as a Labour MP. Although I imagine he quietly will be again soon when they realise they've misread what he's said and massively overreacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, ml1dch said: They're not the same thing at all. Bristow's been removed from his (minor) Government job for publicly taking a position contrary to that of the Government. He's still a Tory MP. McDonald is no longer sitting as a Labour MP. Although I imagine he quietly will be again soon when they realise they've misread what he's said and massively overreacted. They've done the same thing (sacking someone for comments on the situation and calling for a ceasefire), just to varying degrees and as you say Labour will likely reinstate McDonald soon. McDonald also used a politically charged term which is reported as hate speech (I'm not saying it is hate speech, just how it is being portrayed) whereas Bristow didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Rds1983 said: They've done the same thing (sacking someone for comments on the situation and calling for a ceasefire), just to varying degrees and as you say Labour will likely reinstate McDonald soon. I appreciate that it's pedantic, but it is two different things. Bristow would be in the same predicament if he had publicy gone against the Government position on anything - HS2, the silly smoking ban, tax cuts. His is a policy disagreement (and if were being cynical, I'd guess that as an MP for a seat with a large muslim population this is more of a last-throw-of-the-dice for his chance of re-election than anything too noble) which means he can no longer serve in Government, whereas McDonald's is a (blown out of proportion) conduct issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 A public figure, especially one in the Labour Party should be staying well away from that 'from the land and to the sea chant' though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 31, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2023 24 minutes ago, ml1dch said: whereas McDonald's is a (blown out of proportion) conduct issue. It's also a policy issue. Labour has been a two state solutionist party for as long as I can remember and as FTRTTS is widely interpreted to be a slogan calling for a one state solution (on both sides) so his pronouncement is also against a long held Labour policy (no matter which wing of the party was in the majority) As an aside both Hamas and Likud use a similar phrase in their constitutions, with obviously different intent in terms of the endgame 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2023 Quote Dismissing or ignoring what this phrase means to the Palestinians is yet another means by which to silence Palestinian perspectives. Citing only Hamas leaders’ use of the phrase, while disregarding the liberationist context in which other Palestinians understand it, shows a disturbing level of ignorance about Palestinians’ views at best, and a deliberate attempt to smear their legitimate aspirations at worst. Most troubling for me, the belief that a “free Palestine” would necessarily lead to the mass annihilation of Jewish Israelis is rooted in deeply racist and Islamophobic assumptions about who the Palestinians are and what they want. "From the river to the sea doesn't mean what you think it means" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 28/10/2023 at 12:34, Chindie said: **** lol What a shyster. Imagine him reading out ads for Hello Fresh and Best Fiends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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