sidcow Posted October 26, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 26, 2023 2 hours ago, blandy said: I think the exact opposite. I think they didn’t look, and now realise they’ve pissed off a load of potential voters and will reverse ferret/revise their stance. The interview answer by Starmer was sloppy and lacked clarity and was contradictory and the subsequent “explanation” was weak. If he’d answered along the lines of “Israel has a right to defend itself and to bring Hamas to justice, but also has an obligation to adhere to international humanitarian law and protect the lives not just of its own population, but also the lives of civilians in Palestine” then he’d have been fine, I think. It's not even hard is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 17 hours ago, limpid said: I think you'll find that's just one party. It wouldn't apply if the Count Binface achieved a majority. We don't have a written constitution. It's all by tradition and that's why the Conservative Party have got away with so much stuff. They just shrug when they get caught and don't have the morals to resign. Labour Party rules: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/rulebook-2020.pdf page 8, clause VII Quote The leader and deputy leader shall be elected https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_leadership_of_Keir_Starmer The Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer began when Keir Starmer was elected as Leader of the UK Labour Party in April 2020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Liberal_Democrats_leadership_election The 2020 Liberal Democrats leadership electionwas held in August 2020, after Jo Swinson, the previous leader of the Liberal Democrats, lost her seat in the 2019 general election. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Green_Party_of_England_and_Wales_leadership_election The 2021 Green Party of England and Wales leadership election was held from August to September 2021 to select a new leader or leaders of the Green Party of England and Wales Now I’m getting confused, that’s all four major parties that elect their leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Thug said: Labour Party rules: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/rulebook-2020.pdf page 8, clause VII https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_leadership_of_Keir_Starmer The Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer began when Keir Starmer was elected as Leader of the UK Labour Party in April 2020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Liberal_Democrats_leadership_election The 2020 Liberal Democrats leadership electionwas held in August 2020, after Jo Swinson, the previous leader of the Liberal Democrats, lost her seat in the 2019 general election. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Green_Party_of_England_and_Wales_leadership_election The 2021 Green Party of England and Wales leadership election was held from August to September 2021 to select a new leader or leaders of the Green Party of England and Wales Now I’m getting confused, that’s all four major parties that elect their leader? Individual parties rules are irrelevant in a discussion about the electoral system in the UK in general. It's theoretically possible for a party to gain power that doesn't elect it's leader from the membership, in fact the Tory Party was such a party until 2018 when they changed their rules. And even then the membership only gets a vote on the final two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted October 26, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2023 Yes, it’s Steve Coogan, but it feels a bit true. I can see it on the side of his battle bus, now: At least he’s not the other lot. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 26, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 26, 2023 He's not wrong. Still you can't stand for much in this country, it spooks the horses that really matter, and gets the entire system to join ranks to ensure you fail. Even your own party. So we get the amorphous blob in a suit, promising cellophane dreams, selling tissue paper moons on balsa sticks, and promising to offer more of the same but better and with sad eyes, u-turning so much his tie comes off. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 Coogan has pretty much nailed it there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2023 2 hours ago, sidcow said: It's not even hard is it. ...Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Coogan has pretty much nailed it there Yeah he did. Starmer and Coogan are wildly different characters - imagination Vs no imagination - humour Vs no humour. Starmer I don't think will last long, short of getting Labour in - but I really cannot think of any candidate who will come in next. What is the grand plan from New Labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Jareth said: I really cannot think of any candidate who will come in next. What is the grand plan from New Labour? I'd imagine Wes Streeting will be Labour leader at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I'd imagine Wes Streeting will be Labour leader at some point. Is he worthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 25 minutes ago, Jareth said: Starmer I don't think will last long, short of getting Labour in I mean...never say never in the current political climate. But why? And how? The mechanism for removing a Labour leader is a lot harder than it is to remove a Tory one. And if you have a Labour leader that is (broadly) popular in the party, (broadly) popular in the country, in Government, having won an election for his party for the first time in two decades, who controls pretty much all the levers of power in his party - who is the group of people that is stopping him from "lasting" and why? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 1 minute ago, ml1dch said: I mean...never say never in the current political climate. But why? And how? The mechanism for removing a Labour leader is a lot harder than it is to remove a Tory one. And if you have a Labour leader that is (broadly) popular in the party, (broadly) popular in the country, in Government, having won an election for his party for the first time in two decades, who controls pretty much all the levers of power in his party - who is the group of people that is stopping him from "lasting" and why? New Labour. Starmer's a mug if he thinks he has any mandate, they will select a more charismatic option - but who the freak is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: New Labour. Starmer's a mug if he thinks he has any mandate, they will select a more charismatic option - but who the freak is that? I think the country has had enough of charisma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 31 minutes ago, Jareth said: New Labour. Starmer's a mug if he thinks he has any mandate, they will select a more charismatic option - but who the freak is that? With the greatest of respect, this feels a lot like rationalising why the bloke you don't like is going to fail, because you don't like him. If the expectation is that Starmer is going to win the election in this thought experiment but only then do "they" want to replace him, why didn't "they" just replace him 18 months ago when he was struggling and would have lost to anyone that a half-organised faction had put up against him? Or why don't "they" replace him before the election? The 20 point poll lead plus better PR is surely what you want going into your most winnable election in a generation, not after. And who is "they", anyway? I though that half the problem is that Starmer IS New Labour? Or is he not now? Why didn't New Labour just just put their guy in from the start if they wield this power? Who is it that isn't powerful enough to stop Starmer controlling the PLP, PPC selection, the NEC etc, but is powerful enough to just get rid of him for vague charisma reasons shortly after the country decided they were happy enough for him to become Prime Minister? Is this basically just "Mandelson has controlled everything all along" or are there other people so deeply embedded that they have this power? I'd be very interested to read their Wikipedia bios if so, as I'm missing pieces of my political knowledge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 It's laughable to think Labour as it now is, is a democratic party - New Labour are firmly in charge - Starmer is temporary - but nobody can say who comes next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 6 hours ago, Jareth said: It's laughable to think Labour as it now is, is a democratic party - New Labour are firmly in charge - Starmer is temporary - but nobody can say who comes next. Well yes, all party leaders are temporary. And (likely) several years ahead of when they leave, it's usually difficult to predict who replaces them. If things carry on along this trajectory I think that MPs and members will find the "Labour have never had a female leader" calls too loud to ignore and it'll probably be Reeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 20 hours ago, Seat68 said: From the same site linked above, this is a really interesting breakdown of a stat from the survey of muslim voters. https://muslimcensus.co.uk/labour-losing-muslim-vote/. That is a huge drop. Interestingly they say they are working on a heat map to show it at constituency level. The swing away from Labour should be much larger if the numbers from that internet poll were in any way representative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2023 7 hours ago, Jareth said: It's laughable to think Labour as it now is, is a democratic party - New Labour are firmly in charge - Starmer is temporary - but nobody can say who comes next. Who is the next Tory Leader? The next LibDem leader? Can you say with 100% certainty? Using the word democratic in a sentence that expects there to be a coronation for the next leader is hilariously silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Who is the next Tory Leader? The next LibDem leader? Can you say with 100% certainty? Using the word democratic in a sentence that expects there to be a coronation for the next leader is hilariously silly As a wisened reader of political headwinds, who’s next after Starmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Maybe this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts