The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[tinker]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Are labour gonna wipe the floor with them with the council elections? Id say yes

I would say no, apathy will kick in and voters won't turn up at the poll stations at all, lowest turn out figures for years is my guess on the headlines, once the dust settles. 

[Demitri_C]

38 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Thanks - I can see why Labour might think their resources might be better diverted elsewhere:

 

Broxbourne & Hoddesdon South (2019)

Party		Candidate	Votes	%	±%
	Conservative	Paul Mason	1,445	68.1	-4.4
	Conservative	Sherrie McDaid	1,276	60.2	-12.3
	Liberal Democrats	Kirstie de Rivaz	407	19.2	+11.2
	Labour	Kathy Condon	339	16.0	+2.5
	Liberal Democrats	Lukasz Gryzbon	287	13.5	+5.5
	Labour	Jean Legg	264	12.4	-1.1
Majority
Turnout
	Conservative hold		Swing
	Conservative hold		Swing

 

 

No worries tbh i have only been here a couple years but the council is surprisingly ok here. Not perfect but ok better than when i was under enfield.

To say anything Conservative is ok is a miracle at the moment

They should at least try and say with other parties 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Seat68]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

No worries tbh i have only been here a couple years but the council is surprisingly ok here. Not perfect but ok better than when i was under enfield.

To say anything Conservative is ok is a miracle at the moment

They should at least try and say with other parties 

Dem I feel at times you hold Labour to a higher account over the people that actually govern you. 

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Dem I feel at times you hold Labour to a higher account over the people that actually govern you. 

Never

I criticise both parties

Edited May 4, 2023 by Demitri_C

[bickster]

Labour rather pleased with this one

 

[Jareth]

Labour look like chief beneficiary of Tory voters staying home or going yellow - more results to come in of course but currently folks are projecting a Labour biggest party and pos majority with Scotland swinging back their way at next election. It's all a bit apathetic but boy do I like watching tory bastards on the back foot trying to spin things. 

[MCU]

22 hours ago, bickster said:

For one seat or three?

My bad. 3 seats. Labour / Independent / Independent elected in my district. The shitter is Conservative took the majority (Wyre Forest).

[Jareth]

They're saying they won't reverse the anti-protest laws, as there would be far too much to do when they get in and won't waste time unpicking everything from the last government. Are we still certain there's that much difference between them and the Tories? I wonder when the great much hoped for reverse will come, won't be before an election will it. 

[Davkaus]

I'm sick to death of the "they're all the same" lines, that do nothing but help the tories. Labour would absolutely be better than this government.

There are certainly some areas of policy where they're fairly closely aligned though, and their authoritarian approach to protests and ever increasing police powers and surveillance are one of them. On these areas they both play from the same playbook, strip back rights, argue the toss when you're in opposition to look like the good guys, then reap the benefits when you're in power.

[bickster]

16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I'm sick to death of the "they're all the same" lines, that do nothing but help the tories. Labour would absolutely be better than this government.

There are certainly some areas of policy where they're fairly closely aligned though, and their authoritarian approach to protests and ever increasing police powers and surveillance are one of them. On these areas they both play from the same playbook, strip back rights, argue the toss when you're in opposition to look like the good guys, then reap the benefits when you're in power.

Yep any one under the impression that the Labour Party is anything other than leaning towards authoritarian on state powers is deluded. 
 

It's actually stranger that the Conservative Party are so authoritarian when it comes down to their natural leanings from their supposed core political philosophy. Which another one of those ticks in the box of the slippery slope to the F word

[bickster]

3 hours ago, Jareth said:

They're saying they won't reverse the anti-protest laws, as there would be far too much to do when they get in and won't waste time unpicking everything from the last government. Are we still certain there's that much difference between them and the Tories? I wonder when the great much hoped for reverse will come, won't be before an election will it. 

Pick a list of laws you want to repeal, stick them in the manifesto. Draw up one act of parliament to repeal them all at the same time. It clears the Lords at 2nd and 3rd reading due to the Salisbury Doctrine of the Lords not opposing manifesto commitments. 
Its not hard to do nor would it be that time consuming. The excuse is bollocks

[blandy]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

Pick a list of laws you want to repeal, stick them in the manifesto.

Practically, that's absolutely right. Electorally, it's mad (in this instance). That you or I and others on VT might not like what the Tories have just done with the protest law (and others) misses the point, tactically, (I don't mean you are missing it) as to why they won't - lots of people do like these authoritarian laws - "why should I have my journey stopped by a load of oil protesters/anti-monarchists/horse opponents/etc.". It's not a vote winner, overall. It's another reason why these increasing powers never get repealed - along with "it suits the government of the day, whoever that is".

We don't value our freedoms highly enough, collectively.

[Chindie]

32 reasons to be excited about a Labour government.

[Seat68]

8 minutes ago, Chindie said:

32 reasons to be excited about a Labour government.

Some points can be argued, some can't, a good read though Chindie. Full disclosure, he is an SNP activist and so there is a reason for the hit job on Labour, that said, they provided the bullets, loaded the gun and passed it to him.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Seat68

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

32 reasons to be excited about a Labour government.

That's such a shallow thread, and so representative of twitter bollex. It's got a point somewhere amongst the distortion and negative hyperbole, but it's dreadfully put, though I suppose as a direct political opponent of Labour, it's kind of par for the course.

[Demitri_C]

Starmers refused to rule out a coalition with lib dems but refused with SNP.

At least he isnt jumping into bed with the SNP. That would be a disaster and I think the labour party would be out of government in one term if they did a deal with SNP

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

That's such a shallow thread, and so representative of twitter bollex. It's got a point somewhere amongst the distortion and negative hyperbole, but it's dreadfully put, though I suppose as a direct political opponent of Labour, it's kind of par for the course.

Its abit sarcastic i agree but some of the points on that are valid even if the way its presented are questionable 

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Starmers refused to rule out a coalition with lib dems but refused with SNP.

At least he isnt jumping into bed with the SNP. That would be a disaster and I think the labour party would be out of government in one term if they did a deal with SNP

There was never any probability of a Labour / SNP coalition. Labour are a unionist party not only that but traditionally the SNP only vote on issues that affect Scotland so they would be pretty useless as a coalition partner for any party

Starmer refusing to rule out a deal with the LibDem is good. It’s most likely my personal preferred outcome as at least it gets PR back on he table as an issue

[Demitri_C]

16 minutes ago, bickster said:

There was never any probability of a Labour / SNP coalition. Labour are a unionist party not only that but traditionally the SNP only vote on issues that affect Scotland so they would be pretty useless as a coalition partner for any party

Starmer refusing to rule out a deal with the LibDem is good. It’s most likely my personal preferred outcome as at least it gets PR back on he table as an issue

Yeah i think id prefer a lib dems - labour coalition as well.

Also agree about the SNP part of your post. It would make no sense labour would be bettee have a miniority government  than selling their soul to the SNP. You can only imagine what SNP would want in return

[ml1dch]

40 minutes ago, bickster said:

Starmer refusing to rule out a deal with the LibDem is good. It’s most likely my personal preferred outcome as at least it gets PR back on he table as an issue

Yup. I still don't think there will be any formal coalition anyway. It'll just be the Lib Dems amending the shit out of proposed legislation, backed by the remaining non-mental Tories, Labour agreeing to the bits they can get on board with and law being made on an unusually cross-party basis.

I don't think Davey will throw down any wild ultimatums either, around the EU or PR. I don't really see them wanting to collapse a Starmer government and forcing the country into another election that would probably see Lib Dem losses.

It's not as if Labour and the Lib Dems are that ideologically opposed. Would be a bit like Cameron finding common ground with Clegg and Cable from '10 - '15 easier than finding it with Redwood and Rees-Mogg in the horrorshow that followed. 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by ml1dch