Demitri_C Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: One for @chrisp65 Chris only mentions pledge once, so I am not certain if they were policies or just things Starmer has talked about. I don't know the answer to that. I am still deliberating if I vote for them as I am not a fan of the previous administration, or back pedalling. When I get time I will look to see if this is reneging on policies or just being pushed on suggestions from previous interviews. I guess he is being honest at least before being in office however if he is back tracking on this what else ia going to be abolished? Im literally amazed how bad our two main parties are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 Just now, Demitri_C said: I guess he is being honest at least before being in office however if he is back tracking on this what else ia going to be abolished? Im literally amazed how bad our two main parties are I agree, and a cursory glance, it seems they were pledges. With regards uni fees, Nick Clegg back tracked on that when he was in power so laying out now might head off any issues if they do win. Both parties are dreadful, so it may be a case of holding your nose and voting for the one that closely aligns with your thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I agree, and a cursory glance, it seems they were pledges. With regards uni fees, Nick Clegg back tracked on that when he was in power so laying out now might head off any issues if they do win. Both parties are dreadful, so it may be a case of holding your nose and voting for the one that closely aligns with your thinking. Yeah im glad someone else acknowledges that labour are awful too. The tories are absolute shit show and beyond awful. Its just a sad state of affairs that this is the best two options we have. If i was to make a predictable and this is only a prediction i think labour will make the nhs better but on the flip side i think unemployment will be higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah im glad someone else acknowledges that labour are awful too. The tories are absolute shit show and beyond awful. Its just a sad state of affairs that this is the best two options we have. If i was to make a predictable and this is only a prediction i think labour will make the nhs better but on the flip side i think unemployment will be higher I don't know, I really don't, they may try, but its difficult to put too much trust in any party. My thinking is like Biden following Trump, Biden was just more stable, boring, but stable. That's my hope, if Labour get in, let them be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Seat68 said: I don't know, I really don't, they may try, but its difficult to put too much trust in any party. My thinking is like Biden following Trump, Biden was just more stable, boring, but stable. That's my hope, if Labour get in, let them be boring. I dont care if they are boring just that they make things better Starmer doesnt have the charisma that bliar did but that doesnt mean he might not be successful (not saying you said that just saying generally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 All available on KeirStarmer Under the headline ‘my pledges to you’ 1.0 economic justice: Quote Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners 2.0 social justice: Quote Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning. 5.0 common ownership: Quote Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system. There are 10 pledges in all, and in most tests 7 out of 10 would be a very good mark. Some of them such as pledge 5, containing multiple strands. For instance, on ending outsourcing within the NHS, he has since said he wants to draw on investment and expertise from outside the public sector. There is a problem with the public reading policies and promises and pledges and generally doing more research than just picking up a vibe off the telly. You can begin to look like you’ve over promised on your points of difference. It goes for all the parties. It’s just that for this election it feels even more important than ever not to just come over as more of the same but in a different colour tie. The tories are perfectly capable of wearing different ties and pointing out all politicians are essentially the same. Basically, don’t have a website of pledges and then row back on them one by one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 He’s not so much rowing back on them, more being realistic about the timescale. The Tories have wrecked the country, priorities have to reflect that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Quite an inspiring interview with Starmer this morning on R4. Whilst he has set out a pledge to scrap Uni Fees, he believes he’s now unfortunately going to change his position on this. Similarly, whilst he previously mentioned increasing taxes on the wealthiest 5% he feels now is not the time what with everything being so expensive. Also, whilst he’s previously suggested renationalising energy that isn’t really feasible and he also volunteered that he feels Labour may have to alter their previous position on renationalisation of water. Probably pragmatically sensible under the circumstances. I don’t suppose it will be massively politically popular, nor will it be much of a headline grabber, but it does seem, in the climate to be right. I mean why, when the debt and deficit is so high, transfer billions of quid into the pockets of water co. shareholders? Why not regulate and/or windfall tax water co. profits to sort out the pollution problems? With energy they said a while back that they’d set up a state energy company. If the state can run energy better than British Gas, then that’s a win for everyone. The taxes thing I’m guessing is income tax? That probably is political, allowing them to win votes by pointing out the tax burden currently is the highest it’s been for decades. If they have a pledge to put them up, then it’s a ready made retort from the tories “but you are going to make them even higher”. The thing missing is the alternative vision. You can make an argument as to why what he’s said makes detailed sense, but as pointed about above by people, the lack of a vision is a downer. I mean hypothetically if he had said “we’re going to change taxation so that much more tax is based on environmental harm, whether that means water pollution, fossil fuel emissions, air pollution, nuclear waste and we’re going to use the money to reduce student fees, and pay for the NHS and schools (or whatever)”…then that kind of gives a hope of how things could be different and better. [You can insert whatever options you like into the hypothetical scenario]. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 We all thought Labour were keeping their powder dry and timing their run but as time goes by it’s looking less and less likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, meregreen said: He’s not so much rowing back on them, more being realistic about the timescale. The Tories have wrecked the country, priorities have to reflect that. Covid Ukraine Energy crisis Banking wobble Brexit Agreed its a different world. So why hold yourself to ransom by setting up a stand alone Keri Starmer website with a list of pledges? No small print, no little asterix referencing subject to economic climate at time of contract. I suspect it was done in haste for an early goodwill bounce, and to keep the lefties on board that were suspicious of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Probably pragmatically sensible under the circumstances. In the coming months they’ll spend a fortune on advertising agencies, image consultants, focus groups and community engagement. They’ll never ever come up with anything even close to this for a strap line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 Always good to remember we have a Prime Minister in our system, not a President. Ultimately the overwhelming support within the Party for many of those policies will ensure they won’t go away. Delayed maybe, but I have faith as a member of the Labour Party, they will still be on the agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Genie said: We all thought Labour were keeping their powder dry and timing their run but as time goes by it’s looking less and less likely. I’m not sure that’s right. I mean I did and do, but lots of folk have been calling him/ them no different to the Tories and “more of the same, just slightly less nasty” and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, blandy said: I’m not sure that’s right. I mean I did and do, but lots of folk have been calling him/ them no different to the Tories and “more of the same, just slightly less nasty” and so on. I realise the danger in branding any other party the same, or they’re all the same etc. The current Tories are the worst of the worst as far as I am concerned. That’s based on policies and corruption/lies. I really wanted another party to appear like a beacon of hope. A charismatic leader who resonated with the people promising to have the answers and assurances things will be better. I really worry that Labour will get into office by just being slightly less shit than the current lot. It’s like taking over Chelsea in 12th place with a billion pound squad and another billion ready to spend and then saying top 10 is fair. Edited May 2, 2023 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Genie said: A charismatic leader who resonated with the people promising to have the answers and assurances things will be better. Charismatic leaders are often words removed. People who promise they have the answers are liars. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, blandy said: Charismatic leaders are often words removed. People who promise they have the answers are liars. Yeah, I get that too. Too far along that spectrum are the likes of Trump, Johnson & Farage. What I really want is our relationship with Europe to be fixed. It would improve so many of the issues we all face and signal genuine hope. It will take a brave leader to promise that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, Genie said: It will take a brave leader to promise that. It actually wouldn't if you read the article I posted in the Brexit topic yesterday. Starmer has it absolutely wrong about the red wall and his chances of success with the line he's taking. If he said Brexit was a disaster and we need to fix the relationship, he'd still win all 42 Red Wall seats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 On 29/04/2023 at 20:18, maqroll said: The only thing I see here that could be interpreted as a trope is the octopus/squid holding what might be gold coins. But isn't there a level of truth there, regardless of Sharp's religion? Banks like Goldman Sachs are parasitical. I get queasy when satirists are censored. It's not for the lack of form from Rowson, here he is with some other tropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It's not for the lack of form from Rowson, here he is with some other tropes. Yeah, this one is sloppy at best. I'd have no problem with it if the glove was blue and white, but without the flag of Israel colors, it looks straight up anti-Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 25 minutes ago, bickster said: It actually wouldn't if you read the article I posted in the Brexit topic yesterday. Starmer has it absolutely wrong about the red wall and his chances of success with the line he's taking. If he said Brexit was a disaster and we need to fix the relationship, he'd still win all 42 Red Wall seats I don’t see anything in the Brexit topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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