Possibly interesting maps...

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

Less, the Nazi vote was mainly protestant

I think it's because protestants in germany are more nationalist, trying to remember my bismarck studies but that basically looks like prussia were the biggest Nazi supporters but then prussia were also the drivers behind unifying Germany 

But one of Hitlers skills was knowing his crowd, he shaped his speeches around his audience, again from memory most of his anti semitism was saved for bavaria, in places like hamburg he focused on versailles limiting ship building, in the ruhr it was about industry, pretty much everywhere it was anti communism, not sure if in the north east his anti communism stuff would have had the biggest impact 

 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I think it's because protestants in germany are more nationalist, trying to remember my bismarck studies but that basically looks like prussia were the biggest Nazi supporters but then prussia were also the drivers behind unifying Germany 

But one of Hitlers skills was knowing his crowd, he shaped his speeches around his audience, again from memory most of his anti semitism was saved for bavaria, in places like hamburg he focused on versailles limiting ship building, in the ruhr it was about industry, pretty much everywhere it was anti communism, not sure if in the north east his anti communism stuff would have had the biggest impact 

 

The other thing I read when I found that was that the Catholics had different parties that they voted for which were also RW but there was one Nazi policy that they particularly disagreed with. (I forget what it was)

[Marka Ragnos]

22 minutes ago, bickster said:

The other thing I read when I found that was that the Catholics had different parties that they voted for which were also RW but there was one Nazi policy that they particularly disagreed with. (I forget what it was)

Interesting. I wonder. I think in other countries Catholics were sometimes warned against joining organisations that weren't explicitly approved by the RCC, particularly if any sort of oath or quasi-sacred allegiance or fealty were required.

[limpid]

43 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Interesting. I wonder. I think in other countries Catholics were sometimes warned against joining organisations that weren't explicitly approved by the RCC, particularly if any sort of oath or quasi-sacred allegiance or fealty were required.

Probably why the Nazis signed their first treaty with the Catholic church.

[mjmooney]

4 hours ago, bickster said:

Less, the Nazi vote was mainly protestant

I'm somewhat surprised. I may have got it wrong, but I understood the Nazi hotbed was in the south - Bavaria. And isn't that area mainly Catholic? Biggest anti-Nazi area was Berlin. 

[bickster]

29 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm somewhat surprised. I may have got it wrong, but I understood the Nazi hotbed was in the south - Bavaria. And isn't that area mainly Catholic? Biggest anti-Nazi area was Berlin. 

Nazi ideology was born out of Lutheran Protestantism and Martin Luther's overt antisemitism

Most high ranking members of the NSDAP came from Bavaria, that’s true but they were from the Protestant minority

Its also true though that Hitler, Goebels and Goering were all born Catholic

Also this map isn’t really saying much apart from the Catholics had their own well established RW party to vote for

[Marka Ragnos]

43 minutes ago, limpid said:

Probably why the Nazis signed their first treaty with the Catholic church.

Perhaps that treaty was a mutually beneficial "look"  -- a treaty routinely violated on both sides, as I understand it. In the end, I think hatred for and indifference towards 20th century Jewish people among German and other European Catholics was stronger than the Roman Catholic love of a certain first-century Jew.

45 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm somewhat surprised. I may have got it wrong, but I understood the Nazi hotbed was in the south - Bavaria. And isn't that area mainly Catholic? Biggest anti-Nazi area was Berlin. 

I suspect things changed, too, as the war wore on?

[Marka Ragnos]

Are the dark red countries just better at treating mental illness; is mental illness more prevalent in those places; or are psychotropic meds overprescribed there? 

[limpid]

15 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Perhaps that treaty was a mutually beneficial "look"  -- a treaty routinely violated on both sides, as I understand it. In the end, I think hatred for and indifference towards 20th century Jewish people among German and other European Catholics was stronger than the Roman Catholic love of a certain first-century Jew.

It's still in force though.

[Stevo985]

17 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Are the dark red countries just better at treating mental illness; is mental illness more prevalent in those places; or are psychotropic meds overprescribed there? 

I'd imagine it's a mixture of better awareness of mental health issues, availability of medicines AND overprescription.

And the combination of those ingredients varies from country to country

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd imagine it's a mixture of better awareness of mental health issues, availability of medicines AND overprescription.

And the combination of those ingredients varies from country to country

Your take is what a doctor friend of mine said, too. I don't know. I feel like what counts as "normal" in terms of personality and affect has been made very narrow in the USA and sadly increasingly in Britain, too.

[Mr_Dogg]

6 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Your take is what a doctor friend of mine said, too. I don't know. I feel like what counts as "normal" in terms of personality and affect has been made very narrow in the USA and sadly increasingly in Britain, too.

In a lot of the world if you're depressed it just means you're alive.

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Your take is what a doctor friend of mine said, too. I don't know. I feel like what counts as "normal" in terms of personality and affect has been made very narrow in the USA and sadly increasingly in Britain, too.

I think that's a good thing

"normal" is a very problematic word to use to be honest.
And mental health issues being dismissed as "normal" is not a good thing. not by a long shot. And I imagine for large parts of the blue and light green areas (and probably the grey) of that map that's what's happening. There's just no awareness that these things are issues so they're not treated. People are dismissed as being down, or sad, or different and don't get the help they need.

And by the way, prescribing medication as an easy way out also isn't a good thing as that often wouldn't address the root cause

Edited February 19 by Stevo985

[Marka Ragnos]

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think that's a good thing

"normal" is a very problematic word to use to be honest.

I may have not made myself clear. What I'm saying is that doctors' view of normative mental health has become overly restricted, so much so that pills are thrown at anyone with the slightest idiosyncrasies. That great product of British society -- the English Eccentric -- is a dying breed.

[mjmooney]

7 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

That great product of British society -- the English Eccentric -- is a dying breed.

I've encountered several of them over the years. 

words removed, every one. 

[colhint]

Surely we're all ecentric in to some other person. 

[Marka Ragnos]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I've encountered several of them over the years. 

words removed, every one. 

I guess it must depend on what counts as eccentric, right? I do think that many of the people I’m thinking of are indeed sort of difficult and hard to form relationships with. But would I want them to be all smoothed out on hypnotics? No thanks. I’ll take the arseholedom usually. 

[bickster]

9 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I guess it must depend on what counts as eccentric, right? I do think that many of the people I’m thinking of are indeed sort of difficult and hard to form relationships with. But would I want them to be all smoothed out on hypnotics? No thanks. I’ll take the arseholedom usually. 

Mogadon should be prescribed to anyone putting gravy on fish.

[icouldtelltheworld]

On 18/02/2024 at 19:54, Marka Ragnos said:

Are the dark red countries just better at treating mental illness; is mental illness more prevalent in those places; or are psychotropic meds overprescribed there? 

All certainly a factor, but I'd imagine it's more simply that mental health becomes a bigger factor in any given society once most people have their more basic needs met 

[Marka Ragnos]

4 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

All certainly a factor, but I'd imagine it's more simply that mental health becomes a bigger factor in any given society once most people have their more basic needs met 

Probably, yes. A range of "first world" elective medical treatments would likely track similarly? I suspect that the map would match up closely with statins use, for example?