Paul Lambert

[Vive_La_Villa]

To be fair I think when Lambert first took over he tried to adopt a possession style of play. He then soon realised that it would take years to adapt and probably lead to relegation in the mean time such is the quality of our players That's when back to the walls counter attacking came in. It's ugly to watch but I guess it will keep us in the league.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

 

I've yet to see anyone say that they accept that this is his philosophy and that there happy with it as long as it begins to garner better results.

Let me be the first. I enjoy counter attacking football, I did under O'Neill and should Lambert begin to move us up the table with it then I will again. I also appreciate excellent defensive displays such as the one against Liverpool.

I'm fine with the style.

That's your prerogative and I respect that.

 

I'd quite like to see a topless Kelly Brook playing up front and challenging for headers.

 

Just don't expect either to get you too far. 

 

 

A very similar style of football got us to 6th place for three years on the bounce as well as a cup final with such superstars as Zat Knight, James Collins and Steve Sidwell appearing regularly.  

[TrentVilla]

I think almost all of us would like to see better football and us retaining possession more than we do, myself included even if I do long for the days before possession stats.

 

But for me, it still comes back to expectations, realism and the circumstances of the club and what appears to have been Lambert's remit these last two years.

 

I'm not going to recap those limitation or issues because frankly everyone knows what they are, some will see them as being excuses and I'm not daft enough to think anything I or anyone else says will change that.

 

I think with everything Lambert has had to deal with since his appointment and the circumstances surrounding the club I think simply keeping us up and trying to improve us is an achievement in itself. To ask or expect him to have done that and to implement a Swansea style philosophy, ethos or style is in my opinion really asking too much.

The way Swansea have their club set up is remarkable, it is an outstanding achievement and I've no issue with them being held up as an example of how a forward thinking club should be run. But lets not pretend they are even remotely close to being the norm, the ease with which they have changed managers and retained a certain style is nothing short of incredible especially in the English game which remains dominated by the cult of the manager.

 

There is a hint this could be changing, Swansea have done it while WBA and Southampton are trying to do it with varying success and I admire them for doing so. But most clubs swing in philosophy and style with the all too frequent changing of their manager, even the mighty United couldn't retain Ferguson's style beyond his time and that was with him hand picking his replacement, RVG is the 2nd manager attempting to imprint a new footballing philosophy on that club.

 

Currently Martinez is having a bit of a tough time at Everton trying to install his way of playing and people are perhaps wondering if he really is the greatest thing since Pallea as that old gob shite from Wigan keeps telling us. The jury is out. But for me he was despite he achievements at Wigan culpable for their relegation because he put his 'style' or philosophy ahead of the cold hard pragmatism of points on the board and staying in the league which is why I will always argue Bruce did a better job at that club.

 

Back to Swansea though,It took Swansea years to in bed their style (ironically after the early work of Martinez) and it was done at a far less competitive level and trying to do it at Premier League level while reducing a wage bill and most importantly staying up is in my view if not asking the impossible is coming very close to it. Given the frustrations aired during Lambert's time (some justified some in my opinion really not) then I struggle to believe as a collective our fans would have allowed any manager to try and achieve this these last couple of years and held them in more esteem than they do Lambert.

 

It is easy to look through tinted specs and say "ah but the football would have been better" well it might, it might not. We might have finished a few places higher or we might have gone down. None of us know.

 

I'm not a huge fan of counter attacking football, I wasn't under O'Neill and I'm not now. In fact it is why Lambert wasn't my preferred choice of manager when he was appointed but I'm not personally critical of how he has approached the job.

 

When Houllier arrived here I was highly critical of him because he I still maintain did more harm than anyone since O'Neill. He tried to change everything far too quickly, he tried to turn us into something we weren't and something we hadn't the players for and he ignored the strengths we had limited though they were.

 

I would argue that Lambert, with the shite squad he inherited and those limitations tried to get the best out of the one single collective attribute the squad had, genuine pace.

 

Two and a bit years on, I agree things need to move on a little and we need to try and be more than that and I'd argue that bringing in players like Cole and Cleverley is an indication that Lambert thinks the same and wants to do that.

 

But it is hard to create a team in the Premier League capable of retaining possession and dominating games, look at Everton who seem to have gone backwards the longer Martinez implements his ways and he spent a damn sight more than us this summer.

 

And yes I know people will point to the success of Southampton under Pochettino, what he did with them was nothing short of remarkable. But lets not kid ourselves that their way of playing wasn't limited in the way ours is, I read recently that Pochettino failed to win a single game in his time there in which they went behind! (I haven't checked the accuracy of that so blame The Telegraph if incorrect).

 

Most teams in the league are relatively one dimensional and struggle when 'their way' doesn't work against an opposition so lets not pretend this is limited to Lambert's current counter attacking play. The truth is to switch philosophies in games or from game to game simply takes better players than we can afford or a fair slice of luck in the market.

 

What we need is more investment in better players, I still maintain Lambert has done pretty well when allowed to spend decent money. And more time with those better players on the pitch.

 

Then I will be more critical on style of play and things like possession, it isn't that I don't want to see these things or that I'm happy with everything right now but rather I just don't think it is as easy as some would have us believe.

 

Anyway, that is my two pence worth. I blame the weather and lack of Sky signal for the rambling length of this post.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I've yet to see anyone say that they accept that this is his philosophy and that there happy with it as long as it begins to garner better results.

Let me be the first. I enjoy counter attacking football, I did under O'Neill and should Lambert begin to move us up the table with it then I will again. I also appreciate excellent defensive displays such as the one against Liverpool.

I'm fine with the style.

That's your prerogative and I respect that.

I'd quite like to see a topless Kelly Brook playing up front and challenging for headers.

Just don't expect either to get you too far.

A very similar style of football got us to 6th place for three years on the bounce as well as a cup final with such superstars as Zat Knight, James Collins and Steve Sidwell appearing regularly.

No way was MON's style nothing but counter attack. It was very direct but no way was it defensive. We managed our highest goal return in Premier League history.

The different was we had a lot more quality players.

[snowychap]

I'd quite like to see a topless Kelly Brook playing up front and challenging for headers.

No matter how well she did, she'd still have her knockers.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Trent I know I keep banging on about it but it is frustrating how much we give the ball away. I don't expect us to play a possession game but I do wish we wouldn't lose possession so easily. I appreciate the last three games have been against far superior opposition but I do think at times the team really doesn't help itself.

Hopefully we can get something against Everton and the players can kick on from there.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I've yet to see anyone say that they accept that this is his philosophy and that there happy with it as long as it begins to garner better results.

Let me be the first. I enjoy counter attacking football, I did under O'Neill and should Lambert begin to move us up the table with it then I will again. I also appreciate excellent defensive displays such as the one against Liverpool.

I'm fine with the style.

That's your prerogative and I respect that.

I'd quite like to see a topless Kelly Brook playing up front and challenging for headers.

Just don't expect either to get you too far.

A very similar style of football got us to 6th place for three years on the bounce as well as a cup final with such superstars as Zat Knight, James Collins and Steve Sidwell appearing regularly.

No way was MON's style nothing but counter attack. It was very direct but no way was it defensive. We managed our highest goal return in Premier League history.

The different was we had a lot more quality players.

I agree. I'm just saying, that type of football is one I enjoy. I genuinely have no interest in possession stats.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I've yet to see anyone say that they accept that this is his philosophy and that there happy with it as long as it begins to garner better results.

Let me be the first. I enjoy counter attacking football, I did under O'Neill and should Lambert begin to move us up the table with it then I will again. I also appreciate excellent defensive displays such as the one against Liverpool.

I'm fine with the style.

That's your prerogative and I respect that.

I'd quite like to see a topless Kelly Brook playing up front and challenging for headers.

Just don't expect either to get you too far.

A very similar style of football got us to 6th place for three years on the bounce as well as a cup final with such superstars as Zat Knight, James Collins and Steve Sidwell appearing regularly.

No way was MON's style nothing but counter attack. It was very direct but no way was it defensive. We managed our highest goal return in Premier League history.

The different was we had a lot more quality players.

I agree. I'm just saying, that type of football is one I enjoy. I genuinely have no interest in possession stats.

Fair enough. I couldn't care less about possession stats either. What I do hate watching is the team work their ass off pressing to win the ball back to just give it away again a few minutes later. Seems to happen way to often.

[Shaw_nuff]

A very similar style of football got us to 6th place for three years on the bounce as well as a cup final with such superstars as Zat Knight, James Collins and Steve Sidwell appearing regularly.

I Think you'll find a fair few of us would liked to have seen someone with a little more footballing nous given that war chest, but that's a different argument.

 

(BTW Zat and Sidwell never appeared regularly) 

 

You have your preference of style and I have mine. I can't debate that. 

 

I'll just close by saying that I thought Paul Lambert's style would be different to how it turned out.

[ozvillafan]

Then I will be more critical on style of play and things like possession, it isn't that I don't want to see these things or that I'm happy with everything right now but rather I just don't think it is as easy as some would have us believe.

 

 

(Sorry to only quote this bit - it was a long post!)

 

I agree - it isn't easy. I also agree that a sudden change from one style to another while cutting costs and trying to stay in the PL could be disastrous, but an argument could be made that Lambert already took that step in his first season (and we came damn close to disastrous).

 

There remains, however, a nagging doubt in my mind about Lambert's ability to ever implement this. The usual remit of "cutting costs" and "poor quality players" is not something unique to managers in the PL. Only a few clubs have an open chequebook - the rest have to make do.

 

What Lambert has been given is time - he's just signed a new contract despite results that would see other clubs move quickly to replace - and this is something unique in the PL.

 

That being the case, he can gradually bring in a better style across the board (youth, reserves, first team) and work with the existing players at his disposal to improve their suitability to this style all the while scouting others that can replace those who won't fit (*cough*Bent*cough*).

 

I see little evidence of this, however. Since he has time remaining he lives with "the benefit of the doubt" for now....

 

... but I can't shake the feeling we are simply treading water with him at the helm.

[Mantis]

Not everything is black and white. Just because most clubs don't have limitless funds doesn't mean most other clubs have faced spending restrictions quite as tight as Lambert has here.

[ozvillafan]

Not everything is black and white. Just because most clubs don't have limitless funds doesn't mean most other clubs have faced spending restrictions quite as tight as Lambert has here.

 

So.... that means he doesn't have to make do, doesn't have to try and improve the squad he already has and can't possibly try to implement a better style? I wonder what financial amount you think we need before he becomes responsible?

 

No manager can plan for transfer budgets or wages as these things are outside their control - tight restrictions or not. You have to plan with what you have and using the former as an excuse means you are only ever treading water till something outside your control changes. Or, in other words, you aren't managing anything.

 

The constant excuse of financial restrictions doesn't wash with me. I'm not expecting miracles - just signs of improvement, of an actual plan in place. I remain in serious doubt that Lambert can or will ever do different than what we currently see.

[VillanousOne]

with Benteke back, Cole, Grealish, Cleverly, Sanchez and Grealish all available it's going to be interesting to see what Lambert's preferred way of playing will be.

 

it's unfortunate we got dumped out of another cup against crap opposition as you'd hope we would blood some of the newer players in that competition. I fear the backlash if we send out a weakened side in the FA Cup will mean there won't be much if any experimenting there.

 

I do think we have the players now to try and vary our style a little and hopefully be a little less one dimensional.

[David-Copenhagen]

It is all good having possession, but the trick is to do something with it and make it count. For me all that matters are results. For me we could play 10-0-0 and score from a corner in the first minute - as long as we win. I just want us to win stuff.

[TrentVilla]

 

(Sorry to only quote this bit - it was a long post!)

 

I agree - it isn't easy. I also agree that a sudden change from one style to another while cutting costs and trying to stay in the PL could be disastrous, but an argument could be made that Lambert already took that step in his first season (and we came damn close to disastrous).

 

There remains, however, a nagging doubt in my mind about Lambert's ability to ever implement this. The usual remit of "cutting costs" and "poor quality players" is not something unique to managers in the PL. Only a few clubs have an open chequebook - the rest have to make do.

 

What Lambert has been given is time - he's just signed a new contract despite results that would see other clubs move quickly to replace - and this is something unique in the PL.

 

That being the case, he can gradually bring in a better style across the board (youth, reserves, first team) and work with the existing players at his disposal to improve their suitability to this style all the while scouting others that can replace those who won't fit (*cough*Bent*cough*).

 

I see little evidence of this, however. Since he has time remaining he lives with "the benefit of the doubt" for now....

 

... but I can't shake the feeling we are simply treading water with him at the helm.

 

 

No problem with the partial quote.

 

I'm not sure I agree that Lambert drastically changed our style in his first season, although I guess changing from no attacking to counter attacking was a change of sorts. I also don't agree that what Lambert did in his first season almost had disastrous results given we were down there before he arrived, the only real impact of his first season was the removal of some high earners.

 

I've no issue with you having doubts, in fact I don't blame you I don't think any of us can be certain about what the future holds even if some seem to think they know the future would be better without Lambert. Doubt is more than fair enough as are concerns or even complaints. What I simply don't agree with though is that the circumstances in which Lambert has managed this club are in any way even remotely close to being normal or even rarely replicated in the Premier League because quite simply they aren't.

 

Yes some clubs have to work with poor or limited players, yes some clubs have to try and reduce wages. But few clubs have done what we have done in the last 2-4 years and even fewer have done it and survived as PL clubs so it is far from being normal.

 

I agree it is unusual that a manager be given a new deal in his circumstances but that perhaps points to an understanding from Lerner that what has been asked of him isn't normal, that he has done well in difficult circumstances and that perhaps just perhaps he is capable of much better in better circumstances. That remains to be seen, as does if the fans are so willing to give him time many clearly aren't and wanted him gone before the end of his second season. Which is their right, but it is then a little rich for people to then quote the example of Swansea and their way of playing which took years to bed in.

 

As for your comment regarding players, as I said I think through the likes of Cleverley and Cole he is already trying to bring in players who play a more possession based game.

 

On the last point about the club treading water, I'm not sure when we spend £10m in a summer we can do a whole lot more but as it is I think we will make small progress this season on last and I don't think we can expect more. As for the years gone under Lambert I'm just glad he kept us treading water while Lerner cut costs because a lot of managers would have let our heads go under.

[Zatman]

results 1st then style of play. Im sure everybody including Lambert would like us playing open expansive football but its just not as simple as changing a slider on your computer game

[smetrov]

I Agree with Trents post - mostly. - Where I perhaps disagree is that there should now be an aspiration to 'better' football - granted this won't happen overnight - but with some stability now at the club - I think we should moving towards a better of style of play.

 

What I fear is happening however is Lambert is making us better at smash and grab - IMO thats a high risk strategy - we can't keep getting enough knife edge results to progress.

[TrentVilla]

I Agree with Trents post - mostly. - Where I perhaps disagree is that there should now be an aspiration to 'better' football - granted this won't happen overnight - but with some stability now at the club - I think we should moving towards a better of style of play.

 

What I fear is happening however is Lambert is making us better at smash and grab - IMO thats a high risk strategy - we can't keep getting enough knife edge results to progress.

 

No I agree with you, there should be and my view was the likes of Cleverley and Cole are possible signs of that but I accept you second point that this could also be the case. We will have to see I guess.

[villan_007]

 

Poor example to use. If you know anything about Swansea then you'd know the answer to that.

 

Give me an example of another team and I'll listen.

 

 

I know nothing about Swansea personally. Perhaps you can tell us why that's a poor example before asking for another? (Otherwise you can just keep dismissing them all without having to provide a reason)

 

 

 

Yep I should have but it was a quick comment on the commute in. Stevo has said exactly what I was trying to get at! thanks bud!

 

Swansea have had their philosophy set in stone for some time now.

 

As for Lambert, I think he had too much to do in two yrs as in gutting and replacing the squad and keeping us up to even think about embedding a philosophy. I hope now that we've come through the storm that he can now start to implement a style we can stick to.

 

To be fair though I tend to agree with posters of the opposite opinion, I'm starting to wonder if he is capable of doing this.

[Mantis]

 

Not everything is black and white. Just because most clubs don't have limitless funds doesn't mean most other clubs have faced spending restrictions quite as tight as Lambert has here.

 

So.... that means he doesn't have to make do, doesn't have to try and improve the squad he already has and can't possibly try to implement a better style? I wonder what financial amount you think we need before he becomes responsible?

 

No manager can plan for transfer budgets or wages as these things are outside their control - tight restrictions or not. You have to plan with what you have and using the former as an excuse means you are only ever treading water till something outside your control changes. Or, in other words, you aren't managing anything.

 

The constant excuse of financial restrictions doesn't wash with me. I'm not expecting miracles - just signs of improvement, of an actual plan in place. I remain in serious doubt that Lambert can or will ever do different than what we currently see.

 

I never said that, I and others are just pointing out the reasons why it may be difficult to improve the style with such limited funds. I think it's pretty obvious that the squad has improved over the last couple of years - we've gone from a midfield of El Ahmadi, Bannan, Ireland, Delph, Herd and Holman to Delph, Westwood, Cleverley and Sanchez.

 

It's not an "excuse", it's an explanation.

 

It's like some people think that there can't be mitigating factors.