Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do any of the Starks have a "legitimate" claim for the throne? If... ***Brace yourself, book spoiler is coming*** a pretty solid claimant. ...as is theorised, Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark then that'd make him a) a legitimate Stark and that would be the worst plot twist ever IMO. Surely if that was the case Catelyn wouldn't have been such a massive bitch to Jon Snow all his life and also rendered her "all because I couldn't love a motherless child" speech between her and Talisa totally pointless. With two Targs running around already I can't see how the narrative of either the books or the TV is served by adding a 3rd one. Wouldn't the assumption be that Ned had to lie to Catelyn too? I don't think 'Ned's promise' has even been mentioned in the TV series, and Rhaegar has hardly got a mention so if this theory about Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's son is true is true they will have lost 90% of the impact when it's revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do any of the Starks have a "legitimate" claim for the throne? If... ***Brace yourself, book spoiler is coming*** a pretty solid claimant. ...as is theorised, Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark then that'd make him a) a legitimate Stark and that would be the worst plot twist ever IMO. Surely if that was the case Catelyn wouldn't have been such a massive bitch to Jon Snow all his life and also rendered her "all because I couldn't love a motherless child" speech between her and Talisa totally pointless. With two Targs running around already I can't see how the narrative of either the books or the TV is served by adding a 3rd one. Cat didn't/couldn't know, only Ned. If Robert had found out, he'd have murdered Jon. Also, a big part of the theory is that Lyanna made Ned promise not to tell anyone (due to the fact "Promise me Ned" is mentioned a million times in his POV) for fear Robert would do something. And it's more believable if Cat truly hates Ned's "bastard", rather than not being too bothered about him because she's actually his nephew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do any of the Starks have a "legitimate" claim for the throne? If... ***Brace yourself, book spoiler is coming*** a pretty solid claimant. ...as is theorised, Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark then that'd make him a) a legitimate Stark and that would be the worst plot twist ever IMO. Surely if that was the case Catelyn wouldn't have been such a massive bitch to Jon Snow all his life and also rendered her "all because I couldn't love a motherless child" speech between her and Talisa totally pointless. With two Targs running around already I can't see how the narrative of either the books or the TV is served by adding a 3rd one. Cat didn't/couldn't know, only Ned. If Robert had found out, he'd have murdered Jon. Also, a big part of the theory is that Lyanna made Ned promise not to tell anyone (due to the fact "Promise me Ned" is mentioned a million times in his POV) for fear Robert would do something. And it's more believable if Cat truly hates Ned's "bastard", rather than not being too bothered about him because she's actually his nephew. I see that but it just smacks of incredibly lazy story telling for me. One thing ASOIAF has taught me is that you can't have heroes or favourites because everyone is a dick. It therefore seems odd that suddenly one of the most popular characters just happens to be a secret Targaryen with a massive shout at being King - one natural extension of that is he marrys Dany keeping the family tradition alive leaving us with the army of the nights watch plus Dany's dragons to take on the white walkers, wreck shit up and end up as King and Queen of the 7 Kingdoms. Horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do any of the Starks have a "legitimate" claim for the throne? If... ***Brace yourself, book spoiler is coming*** a pretty solid claimant. ...as is theorised, Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark then that'd make him a) a legitimate Stark and that would be the worst plot twist ever IMO. Surely if that was the case Catelyn wouldn't have been such a massive bitch to Jon Snow all his life and also rendered her "all because I couldn't love a motherless child" speech between her and Talisa totally pointless. With two Targs running around already I can't see how the narrative of either the books or the TV is served by adding a 3rd one. Cat didn't/couldn't know, only Ned. If Robert had found out, he'd have murdered Jon. Also, a big part of the theory is that Lyanna made Ned promise not to tell anyone (due to the fact "Promise me Ned" is mentioned a million times in his POV) for fear Robert would do something. And it's more believable if Cat truly hates Ned's "bastard", rather than not being too bothered about him because she's actually his nephew. I see that but it just smacks of incredibly lazy story telling for me. One thing ASOIAF has taught me is that you can't have heroes or favourites because everyone is a dick. It therefore seems odd that suddenly one of the most popular characters just happens to be a secret Targaryen with a massive shout at being King - one natural extension of that is he marrys Dany keeping the family tradition alive leaving us with the army of the nights watch plus Dany's dragons to take on the white walkers, wreck shit up and end up as King and Queen of the 7 Kingdoms. Horrible. But if it's the case it was planned from the start and has enough back story to back it up rather than him just 'happening' to be a Targ. Also, that doesn't mean we're going to get a hero King jon and Dany super happy ending. It will still all go horrbily wrong and end up grim as you like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Book spoilers? Get out of here, nerds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Aye, at least there's a warning this time Edited May 14, 2014 by PieFacE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I wonder who Tyrion is going to choose as his champion Would he be allowed to in the circumstances? I cant see how they could stop him, its his right. I don't know how to spoiler tag on my phone but I think you have misinterpreted my question. I didn't mean his request, I mean his right to choose a you know what....Surely you couldn't get someone else to do it for you if you're up for murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "I did not kill Joffrey but I wish that I had. Watching your vicious bastard die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores. I wish I was the monster you think I am. I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you. I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it. I will not give my life for Joffrey's murder. And I know I'll get no justice here, so I'll let the gods decide my fate. I demand a trial by combat!" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6exQognEgU 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 The trail by combat thing, does he have to fight someone or does he choose someone to fight on his behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The trail by combat thing, does he have to fight someone or does he choose someone to fight on his behalf? He can either fight himself, which he won't as he ain't too good at it, or he can name a "champion" to fight for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. Edited May 14, 2014 by Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. The purposes of trial by combat is it doesn't matter who he chooses, the victor will be decided by the gods. Probably an outdated concept even in Westeros. Edited May 14, 2014 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. Yes it is a bit odd but the logic is the gods will ensure that justice is done so the winner of fight wins by divine favour. SUPER MEGA BOOK SPOILER DON'T READ THIS AND THEN BITCH THAT YOU'VE BEEN SPOILED IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED. In the book it is the Mountain who will fight for the Court. Tyrion asks Bronn who says no because he has got engaged to Lolys Stokeworth (the fat, thick one who got gang raped at the same time the Hound saved Sansa in S2) which isn't in the TV show. Only then does Oberyn Martell come to act as his Champion because Oberyn wants an excuse to kill the Mountain who raped and murdered his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. The purposes of trial by combat is it doesn't matter who he chooses, the victor will be decided by the gods. Probably an outdated concept even in Westeros. ...but it would probably help the gods if you had a maniac fighting for your name, would it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. The purposes of trial by combat is it doesn't matter who he chooses, the victor will be decided by the gods. Probably an outdated concept even in Westeros. ...but it would probably help the gods if you had a maniac fighting for your name, would it not? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) We should really talk about this in spoilers. Since we have put the question out of spoilers .... I cant believe they have a system like this. If you are guilty just demand the 'trial by combat' and pay someone like the mountain to effectively set you free. He should have done it as soon as he was put in the dock. The purposes of trial by combat is it doesn't matter who he chooses, the victor will be decided by the gods. Probably an outdated concept even in Westeros. ...but it would probably help the gods if you had a maniac fighting for your name, would it not? This features a slight spoiler that is ahead of the TV show. Exactly, which is why Cersei chooses the Mountain. Tyrion not being a pious man probably sees it as a 50/50 punt (which it is, without factoring in the champions fight prowess) Edited May 14, 2014 by Wainy316 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 I didnt really want to read that. Now that I have I cant wait for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Oops sorry, I thought by your previous comment you knew. Oh well at least I've excited you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 Where did that book thread go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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