PauloBarnesi Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Please do not confuse my unease with the lack of respect shown to the man who has done more for our football club than anyone in recent history as me being 'a fan' In recent history? The last 50 years to me are recent history, a few people seem to have done more. GT, Dugdale, etc, etc Randy has one thing going for him and that seems to be who he isn’t. He isn’t Ellis, that ex-Man City player, the Irish building twins, etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I've never once left villa park and been more excited about the pub or the training ground than what happens on the pitch. What ever he's done in the background means **** all when he's created the worst squad I've ever seen and we've just had our two worst ever prem years. I'm amazed any fan puts things like a pub above the team and results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I've never once left villa park and been more excited about the pub or the training ground than what happens on the pitch. What ever he's done in the background means **** all when he's created the worst squad I've ever seen and we've just had our two worst ever prem years. I'm amazed any fan puts things like a pub above the team and results. I don't. The point that I was making was that the philanthropic gesture that was Mr Lerner's investment in a mere pub far outweighed the investment that Ellis ever made in the club itself. There are no parallels between the overall investment of Mr Lerner and the complete non-investment of the Ellis era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The point that I was making was that the philanthropic gesture that was Mr Lerner's investment in a mere pub far outweighed the investment that Ellis ever made in the club itself. This is competitive sport at the highest level. Who gives a shit about philanthropic gestures? Its about what happens on the pitch and under Lerner we've just had our two worst prem years. We're on course for our 4th consecutive bottom half finish and we have some of the worst players I've ever seen wear the shirt. So like I said who cares what gesture the owner has made when the main point of the club is so terrible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I'm amazed any fan puts things like a pub above the team and results. I don't think anyone does. I just think that with some fans, he has retained some goodwill from giving us three of our best Premier League years. Some people, such as yourself, have lost patience with him already. The first three/four years now mean nothing and you want him gone because of what has happened since. Fine. Other fans, like myself, would like to see if he can put things right. I'm willing to give him a bit more time. Now the club appears to be back on track financially, I want to see either Randy backing the club with regular investment again; or for him to find a buyer who can take the club forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The point that I was making was that the philanthropic gesture that was Mr Lerner's investment in a mere pub far outweighed the investment that Ellis ever made in the club itself. This is competitive sport at the highest level. Who gives a shit about philanthropic gestures? Its about what happens on the pitch and under Lerner we've just had our two worst prem years. We're on course for our 4th consecutive bottom half finish and we have some of the worst players I've ever seen wear the shirt. So like I said who cares what gesture the owner has made when the main point of the club is so terrible? Sigh. I don't think that you are getting it, but I persevere. As a philanthropic gesture Randy Lerner invested a couple of million in a pub - that was more than Doug Ellis ever invested in Aston Villa Football Club as a whole over two periods spanning around 38 years. Randy Lerner has also invested tens, if not hundreds, of millions in Aston Villa Football Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I'm amazed any fan puts things like a pub above the team and results. I don't think anyone does. I just think that with some fans, he has retained some goodwill from giving us three of our best Premier League years. Some people, such as yourself, have lost patience with him already. The first three/four years now mean nothing and you want him gone because of what has happened since. Fine. Other fans, like myself, would like to see if he can put things right. I'm willing to give him a bit more time. Now the club appears to be back on track financially, I want to see either Randy backing the club with regular investment again; or for him to find a buyer who can take the club forward. I'd love for him to put things right. It would be easier than looking for a new owner but I think it's a deluded dream to think its going to change. There's nothing to suggest that there's going to be a change in our approach. HH is probably the best ITK we've had on this site and he's indicated that its more of the same. The first few years mean nothing when its led to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 We would probably end up with a arab zillionaire who claimed he invented the bicycle kick, all the players are like a son to him, and we will continue to be a 6th to 16th side at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 As a philanthropic gesture Randy Lerner invested a couple of million in a pub - that was more than Doug Ellis ever invested in Aston Villa Football Club as a whole over two periods spanning around 38 years. Great, who cares when we are performing worse? You're whole defence seems to be because he isn't Doug.Randy Lerner has also invested tens, if not hundreds, of millions in Aston Villa Football Club. And we're now struggling while he makes sure he gets most of it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) I'd love for him to put things right. It would be easier than looking for a new owner but I think it's a deluded dream to think its going to change. There's nothing to suggest that there's going to be a change in our approach. HH is probably the best ITK we've had on this site and he's indicated that its more of the same. The first few years mean nothing when its led to this. That's all in your opinion but I don't believe the words of so-called ITKs; neither do I allow the troubles we've had over the last couple of years to taint what happened before it. I'm happy to wait it out for while longer. Edited December 28, 2013 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 He buys the club for around £40 million and we've just had our two worst ever premiership seasons. How could anyone justify the club being worth anywhere near the amount of £250 million? He paid Doug 64m for his share, then spent more money buying up the rest if the shares. He actually bought the club for close to 100m id estimate Lerner paid £64m for the whole club not just Doug's shares. All the other money has come in as loans from Lerner family trusts as far as I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) That's all in your opinion but I don't believe the words of so-called ITKs; neither do I allow the troubles we've had over the last couple of years to taint what happened before it. I'm happy to wait it out for while longer. Your choice I guess. But it seems to be based on nothing but hope and blind faith. Edited December 28, 2013 by Big_John_10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 That's all in your opinion but I don't believe the words of so-called ITKs; neither do I allow the troubles we've had over the last couple of years to taint what happened before it. I'm happy to wait it out for while longer. Your choice I guess. But it seems to be based on nothing but hope and blind faith. It's based on not being able to predict the future and waiting to see what happens. What I do know is that the club should know be on a sound financial footing. I'm willing to see what happens in the next two transfer windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Part of me does want to see what happens now that, presumably at least, the books are balanced. I mean they have to be don't they? Bar one or two remaining people like Nzog and the like we must have an easily manageable wage bill... So i would like to see what happens now, If Randy intends to invest again. If he does not intend to do this then do us all a favour and try everything to find someone who does and more importantly can. I cannot bear to watch us anymore as things stand.. it's akin to watching a fish writhe about in a puddle of water struggling to breath. None of us i'm guessing really know if this is all true or just gossip but it seems odd that little smidgins of info are appearing i have to say. As long as whatever happens is for the good of Aston Villa FC then bring it on. Edited December 28, 2013 by danceoftheshamen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) That's all in your opinion but I don't believe the words of so-called ITKs; neither do I allow the troubles we've had over the last couple of years to taint what happened before it. I'm happy to wait it out for while longer. I am not sure what Lerner did before this last 3-4 years was so great. In Randys first 4 years at the club we had a net spend of just over 60 million including the sale of James Milner. That is 15 million a year. That is not to be sniffed at but it is not major spending. For that the club went from just avoiding relegation the season before he arrived to three top 6 finishes on the spin. There was of course another cost for those three sixth place finishes in that we had the eighth, sixth, and sixth highest wage bills in the league during those seasons. The trouble then came when Lerner realised too late that despite finishing sixth, with the sixth highest wage bill, he couldn't get the club income up to a level to sustain it and we have all seen the disastrous way he has gone about remedying that. Edited December 28, 2013 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 That's all in your opinion but I don't believe the words of so-called ITKs; neither do I allow the troubles we've had over the last couple of years to taint what happened before it. I'm happy to wait it out for while longer.Your choice I guess. But it seems to be based on nothing but hope and blind faith. It's based on not being able to predict the future and waiting to see what happens. What I do know is that the club should know be on a sound financial footing. I'm willing to see what happens in the next two transfer windows. Well no more excuses this summer so we will see what happens. Let's hope it makes 4 relegation worried years worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Who's Howard Hodgson ? Hairy Hands? That did cross my mind. - BUT:- Howard Hodgson is local businessman and villa fan - he prepared a report into the state of the club at the tail end of the Ellis era - and is now pretty close to Faulkner. Hairyhands seems to be pretty close to lambert - he's broke several big stories on here - and his updates on team selections are usually pretty close to the mark. Apologies if any of this has been posted before. Howard Hodgson is not a local business man anymore. He actually lives in Malta these days but is in the UK on a fairly regular basis. He now spends his time trying to develop new crematoriums in the UK and he actually left the funeral business he helped build up in around 1991. From what I know of him I would be very surprised if he was close to Faulkner. I dont know whether Howard Hodgson is on Twitter but his son also called Howard certainly is. From what he posts on Twitter he runs some sort of catering / hotel recruitment agency based in Poole in Dorset. He is the much more overt Villa fan than his father but he seems to exchange quite a few tweets with JulieB about 'ITK' things so draw your own conclusions. Again I personally would be very surprised if he was close to Faulkner. As for Hairy Hands I would guess he is someone who works at the club and is unlikely to be either Hodgson. Having said all that I suspect Lerner would sell if he could get his money back. No ITK just a hunch on my part.The PL has changed radically since he bought the club, his ownership has not been a success, his personal circumstances have changed and I don't think he has either the money or desire to compete with the big boys. The question is would anyone offer him the right price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 As said by others, Lerner has paid circa £60m to Ellis & around the same again in compulsory buy outs of outstanding shares. I have friends who have had shares in their family since the original issue of the late 60's & wanted to pass them down to sons etc. Lerner took that option away from them. Lerner was never in it for anything else other than financial gain & realised after about 4 years in charge that this would never happen. As the club is non-profit making, I fail to see why anyone would want to invest millions into it. Other Yanks who have got themselves involved in clubs have made hasty retreats, licking their wounds. I've no sympathy for Lerner, nobody asked him to invest, why should we suffer for his bad business decisions? What I would say is that the team & manager want to be here so should have our support-Especially at a time like this when we're on a bad run. None of us want to see the side relegated do we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 If Lerner got his money back, he'd do well. Remember anyone who buys the club buys the debts as well which is all owed to Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I don't get the love in for what he did for the first few years. A very wealthy man loaned us some of his money then gambled with our future when he tried to get it back. Yeah let's build him a statue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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