KJT123 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 The football hasn't been good recently, I honestly believe that this is because Lambert has been setting the team up to not lose, considering two of our best players are out injured. When benteke and Vlaar are back, we will see big improvements in the football played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Bacunas quick Kev, he dropped him, Bennetts quick enough hes dropped. Hes cut off his nose too often .You could argue Ireland, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Bent, would walk into our team atm, and Cuellar Warnock and Hutton would'nt make us much worse either. PL has been here 18 months, hes bought how many players, if theres a problem, its a problem he has created. Bacuna you may of notice wasnt dropped he played yesterday. Bennett's been injured all season and is still injured Bent can't walk into Fulhams shite side nor can Cuellar get into Sunderland's shite side Ireland had numerous chances and wasted them all, Sidwell went under Houillier?? Warnock and Hutton were utter utter crap. Warnock can't get into a Championship side and no-one in their right mind will take Hutton, even on loan Dunne and Collins cost £100k+ a week in wages. Dunne was even more injury prone than Vlaar. Collins attitude was rightly questioned and I for one am delighted he has left my club None of the players you mention have gone on to be successful elsewhere Garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Cant be arsed with the debate - (again) - but wouldn't like the thread to be unrepresentative ! For me it is simple. In order to get off the stupid Manager merry go round (suddenly Bruce and Jol are going to be in favour...who will it be next month) that so many teams fall for and ultimately fail because of, we have to name our man and stick with him for 3 years. As it happens I think Pl will get it right and we are just currently in a downward part of an overall upward curve...but even if I didn't think so I still think the guy we have has to have 3 years. Otherwise we will definitely ALWAYS be bobbing around 18th-9th. The only possible way out is to be brave and bold and stick with a guy to let his plans come to fruititon.yes I know at the moment anyone could level any number of negatives, but thats the only way as I see it. brilliant post terry We gave DOL 3 years and he got worse every season. Just giving someone time doesn't mean it will work out. DOL bought some good players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Yes Bacuna is quick but as seen started well then got the run around as he aint no defender. Both him Bennett and Luna all suffer from the lack of cover they get from midfield leaving them having to play against 2 players and being made to look useless and being frustrated. Out of the 3 Bacuna copes better due to his speed. Next match check out the midfield and just look how bad they are at picking up players and covering the defence. we say we have defensive midfielders but I would argue that and say we have not got them as they do not have a football brain between them which is evident as none of them can pick out a runner unless it is in front of them. Of the players you listed above I do not think it was the football side of them that made them get moved on but more the attitude and work rate. The hoof ball we see is mainly due to frustration and panicking by the defense as they do not see players in space to pass to in front, again a poor midfield with no movement, we knock AW for being poor but he is pretty much the only one apart from the occasional effort from Gabs to find space but even then they rely on somebody to pass the ball in front when 9 out of 10 it is passed behind and kills the move. It is evident PL does not set out to play this way as we start the first and second half well then fall apart when questions are asked. Is it PL fault we have poor players. not sure as if these players were put into a better team they may flourish, the problem i think is there are way too many in our team in 1 go who need experience and to learn their trade at this level. I think this is what PL means when he says it is early days into our progression, the problem is we need 4 or 5 better players with a good attitude to help the kids out but this has to be down to lack of funds and lies at RL door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Fulham who beat us, Sland who will probably beat us.I know you support PL Cas, thats fine, yes i was'nt disappointed with them players going, but the current crop imho are worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I think he'll walk if he loses the fans. I was happy with the reaction in the Holte yesterday. Half way through the second half, a small chorus of boos started, but within seconds, a strong chant of "Villa, Villa, Villa" overcame them. As opposed to cheering on the team, it really did feel like we were chanting to cover the boos. I still have faith in Lambert. At the start of the game yesterday, we seemed to be playing the way we were last season. Shorter passing, constantly pressing. It was only after we scored that something changed. I hope Lambert can stop the needless hoofing and panicking. I do feel that our full strength side (without injuries) would be easily safe and challenging for a position in the top ten. Also, it would be a side built on a budget, punching way above it's weight (when you consider the costs/wages of the other teams in that area of the table). I still have faith. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 After firmly being anti lambert for a week I have now swung back into the 'we should probably stick with him camp'.I give up having an opinion on the matter! I'm just thankful Randy isn't as indecisive as I am. For what it's worth, Randy will stick with him so all this debate is ultimately a bit pointless. I just wish he'd back him if he trusts Lambert so much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I dont think they are worse but less experienced, young and easily panicked. this is the second season for most of them and is pretty much sink or swim time. We relied on effort and spead of break aways last season and it worked towards the end. now the opposition have sussed out our style and are playing on our weak points as all good teams should, more experienced players will change and adapt to get round this where as ours have to work it out as they have not got the experience to draw on. PL can advise them in training and coach them but in the end it is down to the players to work it out which we are struggling with. CB coming back will not change our fortunes as he will still be isolated and double marked. We will maybe give him 1 or 2 chances in a game and hope he scores one (huge pressure). we rely now on defending deep and as said being set up not to loose and hope we can nick one. unless we add better players in midfield we may not survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past." He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count. I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season. What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure. After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game. Pass completion is not "the basics" - in the dutch league you will look like your good because you will have time, in the Premiership you will get no time. Posters keep saying we just need "stick to the basics"and "pass and move" - like it's the easiest thing in the world. If it were, you'd think that most managers would have worked that out by now You play if you are allowed to or if you are better than your opponent - £10k a week players are unlikely to be better than £50k a week players Personally, that we are competitive at all on the budget we have is an acheivement (please don't quote the £40m figure again - we have lost players that cost £80m and are working with a circa £60m squad against £120-£350m squads. In any case it's be clearly proven that performance correlates to wages not to fees) 10k a week players eh? How much is Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Vlaar and Guzan earning? At the other end of the spectrum how much has Hughes had to spend at Stoke for example while at the same time changing their style of play? Would you say that the players at Palace are earning more than our players Bannan included? Would you say the players at Hull are earning more than those at Fulham or indeed our players? The difference is in the way they are being organised and coached and that comes down to the manager! Bacuna, Tonev, Westwood, Lowton, Luna, Clark and Baker If you don't want to understand that wages = performance that's up to you No I understand fine that wages doesn't necessarily equate to performance and I've given you examples of that which you have chosen to ignore, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Cant be arsed with the debate - (again) - but wouldn't like the thread to be unrepresentative ! For me it is simple. In order to get off the stupid Manager merry go round (suddenly Bruce and Jol are going to be in favour...who will it be next month) that so many teams fall for and ultimately fail because of, we have to name our man and stick with him for 3 years. As it happens I think Pl will get it right and we are just currently in a downward part of an overall upward curve...but even if I didn't think so I still think the guy we have has to have 3 years. Otherwise we will definitely ALWAYS be bobbing around 18th-9th. The only possible way out is to be brave and bold and stick with a guy to let his plans come to fruititon.yes I know at the moment anyone could level any number of negatives, but thats the only way as I see it.brilliant post terry We gave DOL 3 years and he got worse every season. Just giving someone time doesn't mean it will work out. I agree but look at it in May. We will most certainly go down if he goes in Jan. Another manager will have to use lamberts players and will have an excuse for getting relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Given the tough fixtures early on, the injury problems and lack of form in key players, it shows a lot of spirit in the side to have marginally improved on our position this time last season. We have rescued the most points from losing positions than any other side in the league. Football is all about the margins, we arguably dominated large parts of the games against Stoke and Palace but still lost, we went down to a Fulham side who cheated to score their first goal. The team is noticeably bereft of confidence after losing 4 games in a row but at least we stopped the rot against a Swansea side well-known for possession football. Good players don't become bad overnight. There's a chronic confidence issue in some of the younger players and it's evident how much the entire team misses the presence of Vlaar. Most teams would struggle defensively without their first choice centre backs. We have played most of the season with 2 brand new full backs who are still finding their feet in the league. Players like Lowton, Benteke and Weimann (some of our most effective players last season) look off the boil. We performed better without using the experienced players of the McLeish era and we are slowly getting rid of the expensive wastes of space like Bent, Ireland and Given. We have a better scouting system that is prepared to scour the continent for bargain players. I believe in the vision laid out, we are still a long way from seeing it complete, bringing in a new manager would waste millions on money that can be reinvested in the squad, the philosophy is good, we just need to find the players to fill it. A fully-fit and confident Villa side with the players assembled is capable of playing good football as we demonstrated last season. With their backs against the wall, certain players stood up last season and pulled us away from a relegation fight. I see no reason why they cannot again. Nor do I see a reason to sack Lambert. Edited December 29, 2013 by The_Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 It is no coincidence that players are at their peak at 27 - 28 years old, they are not as fit or fast as when they were younger or even more skillful, it is down to having the experience to draw from and having learned the tricks of the trade. we have no one to teach these things to the players and have to let them learn it themselves. these older players are better as they have learned to read the game and have learned from mistakes, mistakes our players are making every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I really wanted Lambert to do well here. I really thought Lambert would do well here. I bought into the "young and hungry" philosophy, and at time have been quite proud of it. But it doesn't work. The players aren't learning quick enough, they're not developing quick enough, and quite frankly, buying "young and hungry" players just doesn't work. Every club would be doing it if it did. I was all for getting rid of Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Bent, Warnock, Hutton etc.... but with the hope that the players brought in would be better than them. But they're not. Benteke aside, none of the players Lambert has bought in are better than the players they have replaced. The sooner both Lambert and Lerner piss off the better. I can accept not winning games if we were entertaining to watch. Afterall, football is supposed to be entertainment... isn't it? There's nothing entertaining about going to Villa Park. It's a lot of money to spend to watch complete and utter shite. I'm really not bothered about going to Villa Park now. I'd rather just stay in the pub. Watching this "football" is just awful. Seriously cant put 3 passes together, it's depressing. 4 years on the bounce now we've been absolutely awful to watch, I wonder why I bother paying the £500 for a season ticket just to be bored. The sad thing is, the way Lerner is now running the club i really don't believe we could find a better manager then Lambert. They cost less than 50% of the players they replaced, they earn 25% of the players they replaced and yet they have delivered better points total and a better league position. good points cas , statistics that aren't often used but equally relevant Yes I seem to remember those statistics being used several games ago and they were rightly quashed for not being a constant. We are now better off by what, one point with our 'easy run' of fixtures coming to an end. Interesting to see how that statistic fairs over the next set of fixtures? What on earth are you on about this time? It's in the record books, so yes it is a "constant" Lambert's first season delivered a better league postion and more points than McLeish, utilising a squad that cost 50% of McL's and earn 25% Yet both were only able to secure our Premiership safety with one game to go and that's after Lambert spunking millions on making our squad worse. I was referring to our placement and number of points this season which was heralded by you and others as a yardstick for improvement but you knew that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Fulham who beat us, Sland who will probably beat us.I know you support PL Cas, thats fine, yes i was'nt disappointed with them players going, but the current crop imho are worse. and yet they did better last season than the much higher costing and paid team of the season before.....go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Bacunas quick Kev, he dropped him, Bennetts quick enough hes dropped. Hes cut off his nose too often .You could argue Ireland, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Bent, would walk into our team atm, and Cuellar Warnock and Hutton would'nt make us much worse either. PL has been here 18 months, hes bought how many players, if theres a problem, its a problem he has created. Bacuna you may of notice wasnt dropped he played yesterday. Bennett's been injured all season and is still injured Bent can't walk into Fulhams shite side nor can Cuellar get into Sunderland's shite side Ireland had numerous chances and wasted them all, Sidwell went under Houillier?? Warnock and Hutton were utter utter crap. Warnock can't get into a Championship side and no-one in their right mind will take Hutton, even on loan Dunne and Collins cost £100k+ a week in wages. Dunne was even more injury prone than Vlaar. Collins attitude was rightly questioned and I for one am delighted he has left my club None of the players you mention have gone on to be successful elsewhere Garbage Which Lambert signings have been better than those previously at the club this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I was disheartened by his 606 interview after the game last night, He said something along the lines of "Villa are a massive club, but this is built on what happened in the past." He also responded to a question about the 27% possession by asking the interviewer what the score was and stating that it's the number of goals that count. I'm concerned that he is trying to manage everyone's expectations to "as long we finish 17th at worst things will be fine". His tactical ability has really been shown up this season. What I don't understand is why a midfield with Westwood and KEA in it struggles to pass. When we signed KEA didn't he have one of the best pass completion rates in the Eredivisie? Slower league I know but we are struggling with the basics. I get the impression that Lambert just wants our defenders to lump it to the strikers, bypassing the midfield and putting us straight back under pressure. After the end of last season there is no justification for the terrible football we are playing at the moment. It's like we aren't even trying to play the game. Pass completion is not "the basics" - in the dutch league you will look like your good because you will have time, in the Premiership you will get no time. Posters keep saying we just need "stick to the basics"and "pass and move" - like it's the easiest thing in the world. If it were, you'd think that most managers would have worked that out by now You play if you are allowed to or if you are better than your opponent - £10k a week players are unlikely to be better than £50k a week players Personally, that we are competitive at all on the budget we have is an acheivement (please don't quote the £40m figure again - we have lost players that cost £80m and are working with a circa £60m squad against £120-£350m squads. In any case it's be clearly proven that performance correlates to wages not to fees) 10k a week players eh? How much is Benteke, Gabby, Weimann, Vlaar and Guzan earning? At the other end of the spectrum how much has Hughes had to spend at Stoke for example while at the same time changing their style of play? Would you say that the players at Palace are earning more than our players Bannan included? Would you say the players at Hull are earning more than those at Fulham or indeed our players? The difference is in the way they are being organised and coached and that comes down to the manager! Bacuna, Tonev, Westwood, Lowton, Luna, Clark and Baker If you don't want to understand that wages = performance that's up to you No I understand fine that wages doesn't necessarily equate to performance and I've given you examples of that which you have chosen to ignore, again. It's simple enough to find an odd example that bucks the trend but generally in football, like in life better performers get paid better http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877 http://www.econ.tcu.edu/harvey/blog/Salary_Performance_Causality.pdf http://dr.library.brocku.ca/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10464/3997/Brock_Fullard_Jonathan_2012.pdf?sequence=1 Boom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Bacunas quick Kev, he dropped him, Bennetts quick enough hes dropped. Hes cut off his nose too often .You could argue Ireland, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Bent, would walk into our team atm, and Cuellar Warnock and Hutton would'nt make us much worse either. PL has been here 18 months, hes bought how many players, if theres a problem, its a problem he has created. Bacuna you may of notice wasnt dropped he played yesterday. Bennett's been injured all season and is still injured Bent can't walk into Fulhams shite side nor can Cuellar get into Sunderland's shite side Ireland had numerous chances and wasted them all, Sidwell went under Houillier?? Warnock and Hutton were utter utter crap. Warnock can't get into a Championship side and no-one in their right mind will take Hutton, even on loan Dunne and Collins cost £100k+ a week in wages. Dunne was even more injury prone than Vlaar. Collins attitude was rightly questioned and I for one am delighted he has left my club None of the players you mention have gone on to be successful elsewhere Garbage Which Lambert signings have been better than those previously at the club this season? Even with the above facts you still ask this question thinking it proves some kind of point. Yet the only drum you bang is of keeping the old dross above, thinking in some way it would see us in a better position. To answer you question all of them. I wouldn't want one of them back. As also mentioned previously they are not bleeding the club dry of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Given the tough fixtures early on, the injury problems and lack of form in key players, it shows a lot of spirit in the side to have marginally improved on our position this time last season. We have rescued the most points from losing positions than any other side in the league. Football is all about the margins, we arguably dominated large parts of the games against Stoke and Palace but still lost, we went down to a Fulham side who cheated to score their first goal. The team is noticeably bereft of confidence after losing 4 games in a row but at least we stopped the rot against a Swansea side well-known for possession football. Good players don't become bad overnight. There's a chronic confidence issue in some of the younger players and it's evident how much the entire team misses the presence of Vlaar. Most teams would struggle defensively without their first choice centre backs. We have played most of the season with 2 brand new full backs who are still finding their feet in the league. Players like Lowton, Benteke and Weimann (some of our most effective players last season) look off the boil. We performed better without using the experienced players of the McLeish era and we are slowly getting rid of the expensive wastes of space like Bent, Ireland and Given. We have a better scouting system that is prepared to scour the continent for bargain players. I believe in the vision laid out, we are still a long way from seeing it complete, bringing in a new manager would waste millions on money that can be reinvested in the squad, the philosophy is good, we just need to find the players to fill it. A fully-fit and confident Villa side with the players assembled is capable of playing good football as we demonstrated last season. With their backs against the wall, certain players stood up last season and pulled us away from a relegation fight. I see no reason why they cannot again. Nor do I see a reason to sack Lambert. Stopped reading after you said we dominated in parts against Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 We just missed out on Curbishley. He's only in the door at Fulham as TD and already they are reaping the rewards... Seriously though. Sack Lambert and this is the potential bullshit we might end up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Fulham who beat us, Sland who will probably beat us.I know you support PL Cas, thats fine, yes i was'nt disappointed with them players going, but the current crop imho are worse. and yet they did better last season than the much higher costing and paid team of the season before.....go figure No they didn't and this has been continually pointed out to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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