TRO Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Villanousone Stop punishing Lambert and the fans for his/the clubs past managerial and financial mistakes. Are you serious? do you think it is a game of " whats fair".... this is business mate. It doesn't matter a jot who's caused it, it has to be put right. we have lost fortunes on poor transfer business and managed to get some back from clubs as daft as us, perhaps excluding Milner. We now have to find a way to deal with it....and I'm not privvy to say much more than that.... as frustrating as it is for us all. Ps as some posters say, we need some much clearer answers from the club as opposed from this clandestine approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The post that Sutton Paul has wriiten does have points that have some elements of truth about them. Staff at Aston Villa have made mistakes over the years way back to when paul wants to go back to 1945 In that time we have had basically Ron Saunders, with Tony Barton and Roy Mclaren that resembled any kind of football Nous , Graham Taylor needs, some recognition too for the work he did, but outside of all of that it has been "fire fighting". We had a chairman who was happy to preside over mediocrity to preserve his status as Mr Aston Villa despite his claim that his first aim was club solvency, The first thing I want to say is ....MONEY DON'T GROW ON TREES ....and my humble opinion I think over various managers we have spent very badly. The result of that is chairmen lose confidence in managers and so do the other players, net result change of manager every c 3 years. The choice of new managers has been very iffy too, partly relating back to the same net result, changes every 3 years. Fans will have their own opinion where the fault lies, but I believe Randy Lerner for all his other faults has provided funds ( i would suspect he has now lost an element of confidence in parting with it, since he first arrived) on the basis we have in the main bought shite. I also do not subscribe to Aston Villa being anything other than a big club....The reason they are not operating like one is purely down to too many poor decisions being made in many quarters of the club.... but if poor decisions are to be made the quickest way to lose your money or go in to decline is through the Transfer Market....Its big bucks to get wrong as an old Villa mate of mine once said to me.... you can talk about the club "until the cows come home" and any other club for that matter but most of the success or failure is as a result of your Transfer market activities....OURS HAS BEEN WOEFUL FOR YEARS. We think we are being slowly left behind by Everton, it wasn't so many years ago that Earl Barrett chose Villa over Arsenal...but since then a certain Mr Wenger has just illustrated how you make a fortune for your club with clever transfer dealing and lets be fair here.... he has had his fair share of losing his best players. No, In my opinion, to the right men ( owner & Manager)Aston Villa could rise like a phoenix once more, but with the wrong people we will stay in the doldrums.... the likes of signing Helenius and Bowery will not change anything anytime soon. Finally, for me to gain any kind of chance to succeed you need a manager with Nous at talent spotting and a Owner who trusts his judgement and subsequently within reason backs him..... to have one without the other will render fruitless. Ps There are many owners like Joe Lewis in the Bahama's, that spend little time at the club....not the main issues for me. I actually think our transfer policy is only viewed as so bad because we focus on the negatives.....you mention Everton..... What about Jelavic, Jason Backford, Naismith ? & others I don't want to Launch an MON thread, but we talk of Beye, Heskey, Cuellar - and sweep Young, Downing, Milner 'Double Your Money' under the carpet. Liverpool must be the the most wasteful club in recent years, Carrol £35m, Downing £20m, Joe Allen £15m just to mention a few ...... Sure weve had a few disasters - but the steps we have taken to ensure those disasters never happen again are damaging the club for years to come. I don't see how anyone who describes himself as custodian - can sit by while the likes of Cardiff, WBA, Southampton out muscle us in transfer market. Smetrov look all clubs buy "pigs in pokes" we all know that. we have just bought more than most... I don't have to list them all you know who they are. but don't just pick out 3 Everton players as if its just a few we have got wrong...its nearly as bad as an FA Enquiry. No owner with any reasonable amount of money can wear that. I am not advocating Randy Lerner is blameless in some aspects of running the club, but are you going to tell me, he chose them. If you are going to say that it was like HDE and Stan Collymore, then i will concede. It has to be a joint responsibility with owner and manager, but remember the manager chooses the players....... as far as we know. I accept it is the owners responsibility to choose the managers correctly, but then that becomes an indirect responsibility for the poor signings as opposed to direct responsibility. I have no doubt the manager chooses the players at Aston Villa - that isn't in question. Despite the pig in pokes we have brought - I still believe an influx of quality players is the way forward - I know price doesn't guarantee quality, just shifts the odds in your favor. If we rule out signing big players on high wages IMO we are unlikely to remain in the prem for very much longer. You can't eliminate risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 At least Lerner can and will get ALL of his money back - with interest. What I have spent for the last 48 years ain't coming back - it's not even a pleasure watching which at least at times under Little, Gregory,Taylor even DOL and MON it was...... plot lost well and truly by owner and manager....if they ever had one to start with 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Mike I stated what I see and think I have no need to open a debate I am not here to change peoples opinions its too much effort and it can't be achieved. As for being someone close to the club that's just paranoia talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The biggest problem for me is that Randy actually has more than enough money, certainly more than at Everton, Swansea, Southampton and the like, but at this moment he is unwilling to part with much of it. The most frustrating thing is that we have absolutely no idea of his thoughts,as we never hear from him. If it's a case of taking necessary steps back knowing that the investment will come again then I'm happy with him in charge. If that's not the case then he needs to find someone more willing and able to pass the baton on to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Fwiw, if Randy were to sell I don't think he'd A. Do it on the cheap, or B. Sell it to someone like the Venky's or a Tan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I think he wouldn't sell up to someone as bad as Venkys but then again it can be difficult sometimes to judge who to sell to. I suppose that he would rule out anyone who would leverage their buyout against the value of the club and someone who didn't have much money such as someone like Young further than that I think its difficult unless its a buyer like Usmanov, Abramovic or Mansour who have 10's of billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Is there a plan if we do go down? Or will we have to make further cutbacks to League One wages, continuing the downward trend? I think we have one of the worst combinations of Owner and Chief Exec in the Premier League. Individually I think they'd be ok but I don't get the impression that either have a great interest/passion for football. I would like a football man (like Graham Taylor) to come in and work alongside Faulkner to balance, what should be, the dual focus on football and finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I doubt we would have to cut if we ever went down under Randy. I do agree it wouldn't harm to have people who have been involved in football for tens of years like Taylor in a board position, it is a failing of Randy to get that done years ago in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 it is a failing of Randy to get that done years ago in my opinion. What about when he was doing the things you don't want an owner to do for 6 years straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Is there a plan if we do go down? Or will we have to make further cutbacks to League One wages, continuing the downward trend? I think we have one of the worst combinations of Owner and Chief Exec in the Premier League. Individually I think they'd be ok but I don't get the impression that either have a great interest/passion for football. I would like a football man (like Graham Taylor) to come in and work alongside Faulkner to balance, what should be, the dual focus on football and finance. I have no idea what kind of a guy Faulkner is as I have never met him. On the face of it though, he is maturing into an excellent football chief exec and will, if he stays around, become one of these mythical 'football people' craved by some on here. Should Mr Lerner sell up, don't be surprised if PF ends up at one of the so called top 4 clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 The biggest problem for me is that Randy actually has more than enough money, certainly more than at Everton, Swansea, Southampton and the like, but at this moment he is unwilling to part with much of it. The most frustrating thing is that we have absolutely no idea of his thoughts,as we never hear from him. If it's a case of taking necessary steps back knowing that the investment will come again then I'm happy with him in charge. If that's not the case then he needs to find someone more willing and able to pass the baton on to. Exactly where I'm at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 24, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 24, 2013 If Lerner was a bad owner he would borrow against the club tp buy players, if it didn't workpput he could just walk away and leave us in a mess that could destroy the club. If Man U don't make it into the champions league for a few seasons we will see the implications of real shit owners. If he was to sell he would have to prepare the club by cutting costs, getting rid of the dead wood which would leave him with a clear conscience when it came to selling. Leaving the new owners totally responsible for any success or failure. What I don't like is the lack of information from the club, FWIW Lerner is very similar to Doug, which isn't a bad thing IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) The biggest problem for me is that Randy actually has more than enough money, certainly more than at Everton, Swansea, Southampton and the like, but at this moment he is unwilling to part with much of it. The most frustrating thing is that we have absolutely no idea of his thoughts,as we never hear from him. If it's a case of taking necessary steps back knowing that the investment will come again then I'm happy with him in charge. If that's not the case then he needs to find someone more willing and able to pass the baton on to. just about where I am with him, can see why he has done what he has done, but need a bit of temporary relaxation. ps we need some firm information from him in order for us to make informed opinions.... we are all just taking stabs at it. Edited December 24, 2013 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Is there a plan if we do go down? Or will we have to make further cutbacks to League One wages, continuing the downward trend? I think we have one of the worst combinations of Owner and Chief Exec in the Premier League. Individually I think they'd be ok but I don't get the impression that either have a great interest/passion for football. I would like a football man (like Graham Taylor) to come in and work alongside Faulkner to balance, what should be, the dual focus on football and finance. I have no idea what kind of a guy Faulkner is as I have never met him. On the face of it though, he is maturing into an excellent football chief exec and will, if he stays around, become one of these mythical 'football people' craved by some on here. Should Mr Lerner sell up, don't be surprised if PF ends up at one of the so called top 4 clubs. We had one before a Mr Richard Fitzgerald who was advocating the sort of quality most on here are dreaming about but a certain manager manged to manipulate him out of the door.... we fans don't see the politics and the ego wrestling.....guess it could be more fun than the matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 The biggest problem for me is that Randy actually has more than enough money, certainly more than at Everton, Swansea, Southampton and the like, but at this moment he is unwilling to part with much of it. The most frustrating thing is that we have absolutely no idea of his thoughts,as we never hear from him. If it's a case of taking necessary steps back knowing that the investment will come again then I'm happy with him in charge. If that's not the case then he needs to find someone more willing and able to pass the baton on to. just about where I am with him, can see why he has done what he has done, but need a bit of temporary relaxation. ps we need some firm information from him in order for us to make informed opinions.... we are all just taking stabs at it. The club could do with some better communication with the fans, but not just a PR lackey. Is Ian Taylor still some sort of ambassador? Another forum a while ago suggested a high profile spokesperson like Mervyn King or Benjamin Zephaniah who could work with the fans and the media. I guess there needs to be a balance between letting the fans know what's going on whilst not announcing to other clubs that we're back to spending ways again, but a little insight into the plans of the chairman would go a long way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 (edited) lerner seems like a nice enough guy and am grateful for what he tried to do with us but i think he should consider it as he just seem bothered anymore about the club. his only goal is to keep us up and i dont think tha is going to happen in next 3-5 years we are not competitive anymore. when your getting outspent by the likes of southampton and cardiff there is a problem there. Edited December 24, 2013 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Is there a plan if we do go down? Or will we have to make further cutbacks to League One wages, continuing the downward trend? I think we have one of the worst combinations of Owner and Chief Exec in the Premier League. Individually I think they'd be ok but I don't get the impression that either have a great interest/passion for football. I would like a football man (like Graham Taylor) to come in and work alongside Faulkner to balance, what should be, the dual focus on football and finance. I have no idea what kind of a guy Faulkner is as I have never met him. On the face of it though, he is maturing into an excellent football chief exec and will, if he stays around, become one of these mythical 'football people' craved by some on here. Should Mr Lerner sell up, don't be surprised if PF ends up at one of the so called top 4 clubs. None of us on here are football people but we seem qualified enough to tell PF where he's going wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 is it faulkner or lerner though, he can only work with what lerner allows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 The OP should read "is it time for a performing owner" I have my reservations of criticism for him.....but he needs to step up to the plate at times like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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