CrackpotForeigner Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 People who write "St James' Park" and expect it to be pronounced "St James's Park". Unless there are two or more people called St Jame who claim ownership of the park, there should be no reason to spell it other than the way you say it. This is of course ignoring the fact that it's actually pronounced "Sports Direct Dot Com Arena". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 21, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2012 People who write "St James' Park" and expect it to be pronounced "St James's Park". Unless there are two or more people called St Jame who claim ownership of the park, there should be no reason to spell it other than the way you say it. This is of course ignoring the fact that it's actually pronounced "Sports Direct Dot Com Arena". Has Mike Ashley bought Exeter City now as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The fact that the bosses will piss off at lunchtime and yet still expect everyone else to work a full day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Has Mike Ashley bought Exeter City now as well? That's a "Whooosh" for me. Surely you're not advocating spelling it the wrong way? Say it isn't so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2012 Exeter City play at St. James Park, pronounced "Saint James Park". Newcastle Utd. play at St. James' Park, pronounced "Saint James's Park". Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 And of course the Queen lives in St. James's Park, pronounced "Buckingham Palace". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Exeter City play at St. James Park, pronounced "Saint James Park". Newcastle Utd. play at St. James' Park, pronounced "Saint James's Park". Get over it. No. I will NOT "get over it." Newcastle Utd. are corrupting impressionable minds with incorrect use of the apostrophe. Exeter, on the other hand, have my blessing, because their ground is simply NAMED AFTER St James, whereas Newcastle are implying that their ground is or was owned in some way by some fellow called St Jame, who nobody has ever heard of. Seeing as you are the resident grammar Nazi, Mike, I'm appalled that you indulge such a dreadful affront to the English language. Indeed I am amazed that you feel it is acceptable to selectively tell others to "get over" their personal grammatical bugbears. Shocking double standards. I am offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2012 Nope. That use of the apostrophe is perfectly acceptable usage for a name ending in "s". Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Was gonna say, that's what I remember being taught. If a name ends in "s", you drop the possessive second "s" and just add the apostrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Also the name of a place or thing doesn't have to conform to conventional rules of grammar. Some British people got annoyed when the film Pearl Harbor wasn't retitled Peal Harbour for the UK (first world problems eh?) but as it is the name of a place, there is absolutely no need for the localisation. Sometimes it is daft though. The street next to the one I live in is called Princes Avenue, but a couple of the newer street signs on it call it Prince's Avenue. It's daft seeing different names for the same street actually on the same street, but it seems to be quite a common thing in Warwickshire. I know of two more streets where exactly the same thing has happened within a mile of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2012 Is there any other place name besides Westward Ho! that has an exclamation mark in its name? Are there any with a question mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Nope. That use of the apostrophe is perfectly acceptable usage for a name ending in "s". Sorry. Hmmmmm. Perfectly acceptable to whom? Not me, I assure you You may or may not be correct that according to the letter of the law that is an acceptable way to write St James's Park. However, given that writing it as "St James's Park" is at least equally acceptable, my view is that that is how it should be spelled to avoid confusion, in all cases. The apostrophe rules are hard enough to use correctly as it is. An innocent child would look at the way the Geordies write the name of their stadium and draw quite the wrong conclusions about the correct use of apostrophes. Think of the children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2012 I think the children should learn the hard rules of grammar and punctuation the same way that I did. The little bastards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Is there any other place name besides Westward Ho! that has an exclamation mark in its name? Are there any with a question mark? Dunno, but there is a railway station in Bolton with the quite bizarre name of Hall i' th' Wood. (you might need good eyesight to read the sign) You may or may not be correct that according to the letter of the law that is an acceptable way to write St James's Park. However, given that writing it as "St James's Park" is at least equally acceptable, my view is that that is how it should be spelled to avoid confusion, in all cases. But "St James's Park" is a world famous park in Westminster, so perhaps our Geordie friends decided to call their stadium St James' Park to avoid confusion on that front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Was gonna say, that's what I remember being taught. If a name ends in "s", you drop the possessive second "s" and just add the apostrophe. Having now consulted the definitive and final authority on this, and indeed every subject (i.e. Wikipedia), I think what they SHOULD have said to you was: If a name ends in "s", you can sometimes drop the possessive second "s" and just add the apostrophe, although this is controversial. But "St James's Park" is a world famous park in Westminster, so perhaps our Geordie friends decided to call their stadium St James' Park to avoid confusion on that front? Wikipedia talks about the two St James's Parks, and says exactly that. My view is that it's unnecessary. But then as they point out, there are places that have simply kept the old name from the days before the apostrophe or before standardised apostrophe use, e.g. St Albans. In support of my view on this important matter: Wikipedia states: "Many respected authorities recommend that practically all singular nouns, including those ending with a sibilant sound, have possessive forms with an extra s after the apostrophe so that the spelling reflects the underlying pronunciation. Examples include Oxford University Press, the Modern Language Association, the BBC and The Economist.[19] Such authorities demand possessive singulars like these: Senator Jones's umbrella; Tony Adams's friend." But it also says: "If the singular possessive is difficult or awkward to pronounce with an added sibilant, do not add an extra s; these exceptions are supported by The Guardian,[20] Yahoo! Style Guide,[21] The American Heritage Book of English Usage.[22] Such sources permit possessive singulars like these: Socrates' later suggestion; or Achilles' heel if that is how the pronunciation is intended." So I feel partially vindicated, and we can probably agree to disagree. Best I shut up now lest I earn the title of "The Apostrophe Morpheus." Edited December 21, 2012 by CrackpotForeigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 although this is controversial. Made I chuckle. Might be worth mentioning that I was schooled in the Scotland though, so I'm also of the opinion that the world is flat, Irn-Bru is delicious and cheap coke makes a great Xmas present for kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ooh yeah, Achilles and Socrates raise an issue that I'd never really considered before. Regardless of the spelling, now one has ever referred to it as Achilleses heel have they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 21, 2012 Jesus' disciples is the usual form, too. Or Moses' followers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I know its the laat friday before crimble, I finished work at 12, pint of shandy in the pub to say have a nice christmas then I drive to sainsburys to pick up milk, bread and a bottle of vodka for crimble 25 minutes to get a space (I was gonna drive off but car park was like wacky races) no baskets or trollys and the place was full of peope buying shite they could of got weeks ago and i get tutted at for asking a trolly weilding nut job who tought it was ok to leave it length ways in the middle of the isle whilst she worked out if it cheaper to buy 2 300g boxes of biscuits or 1 600 gram box. It's like they all went just to **** me off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I do my fair bit for charities just when it's at work and it's "dress down for £1" or "buy a ridiculously overpriced cake" or "guess how many jelly beans are in the jar" and shit like that I don't ge involved in. As I say I donate money on a monthly basis to three charities, not a lot granted but I give what I can Fair enough then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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