Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[S-Platt]

To be fair the team is not full of mega stars as above they have bought really well and have a great team ethic.

I think they might do worse if they do start buying in Galaticos will be interesting to watch.

I know the ownership is a bone of contention but it's better than Chelsea and Spurs being top 4 and if it pushes City off their perch I won't shed a tear.

They have not broke any rules as far as I know, they have suffered Bruce so for the fans it's dreamland.

We are coming up on the rails so no need to be jealous we just have to follow suit.

[bobzy]

The downside of it all is the Saudi ownership.

If it wasn't for that, I'd be absolutely loving Newcastle right now.  Alas...

[icouldtelltheworld]

1 hour ago, S-Platt said:

I know the ownership is a bone of contention but it's better than Chelsea and Spurs being top 4 

Hard disagree, it's much, much worse, and that is entirely because of the ownership. The complete death knell of any illusion of fair competition in the sport, and a key reason why I'm fast losing any interest in football as a whole

[The_Steve]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

As much as they've spent money, this isn't some teams of established superstars.

They've spent really well.

Over £100m on English talent who outside of Trippier are yet to prove that. I wouldn’t say they’ve spent really well. For what they spent on Isak and Bruno you’d expect a return also. Howe however does deserve credit for getting a tune out of existing players in the squad. 
 

It's going to be very interesting to see how their squad depth copes with any potential injury as the drop off in quality is there.  

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

As much as they've spent money, this isn't some teams of established superstars.

They've spent really well.

I think howe has to take most of thw credit tbh

 

Funny enough tonali who has been one of their most expensive signings has been one of their biggest disappointments so far but he could get better

Pope Botman isak wilson tripper bruno g all been top signings 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, S-Platt said:

To be fair the team is not full of mega stars as above they have bought really well and have a great team ethic.

I think they might do worse if they do start buying in Galaticos will be interesting to watch.

I know the ownership is a bone of contention but it's better than Chelsea and Spurs being top 4 and if it pushes City off their perch I won't shed a tear.

They have not broke any rules as far as I know, they have suffered Bruce so for the fans it's dreamland.

We are coming up on the rails so no need to be jealous we just have to follow suit.

Knock city off its perch then we have Newcastle winning it all instead.

Same shit different colours rather have open competition where 6 or 7 teams are competing 

[S-Platt]

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Knock city off its perch then we have Newcastle winning it all instead.

Same shit different colours rather have open competition where 6 or 7 teams are competing 

I don't see Newcastle dominating like City I think that's all on Pep.  Just need someone break the camels back.  You would hope the Premier League would throw the book at them but we all know they won't.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, S-Platt said:

I don't see Newcastle dominating like City I think that's all on Pep.  Just need someone break the camels back.  You would hope the Premier League would throw the book at them but we all know they won't.

I do if citeh are punished heavily but i doubt they will

If manure get this qatari takeover then i think newcastle wont be dominating like they think they will as can see united dominating like the 90s

Utd are a much bigger club than Newcastle so even if Newcastle have billions utd having billionaire owners that know what they are doing are more attractive than Newcastle 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Demitri_C

[LondonLax]

6 hours ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Hard disagree, it's much, much worse, and that is entirely because of the ownership. The complete death knell of any illusion of fair competition in the sport, and a key reason why I'm fast losing any interest in football as a whole

The Premier League has not been a ‘fair competition’ for the 20+ years I have been following it. If you want fair competition then you’d be better off looking at one of the salary cap franchise sports like NFL in the US or Rugby League in Australia.

 

[NoelVilla]

12 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

The Premier League has not been a ‘fair competition’ for the 20+ years I have been following it. If you want fair competition then you’d be better off looking at one of the salary cap franchise sports like NFL in the US or Rugby League in Australia.

 

Not if you are the Cleveland Browns.

[icouldtelltheworld]

4 hours ago, LondonLax said:

The Premier League has not been a ‘fair competition’ for the 20+ years I have been following it. If you want fair competition then you’d be better off looking at one of the salary cap franchise sports like NFL in the US or Rugby League in Australia.

 

Nah, you're alright

[JPJCB]

12 hours ago, S-Platt said:

To be fair the team is not full of mega stars as above they have bought really well and have a great team ethic.

I think they might do worse if they do start buying in Galaticos will be interesting to watch.

I know the ownership is a bone of contention but it's better than Chelsea and Spurs being top 4 and if it pushes City off their perch I won't shed a tear.

They have not broke any rules as far as I know, they have suffered Bruce so for the fans it's dreamland.

We are coming up on the rails so no need to be jealous we just have to follow suit.

I detest this argument with a passion and note that it’s identical to the one used by some to justify why city’s takeover 15 years ago wasn’t a big deal (“it will be great because it will break up the top 4”)

As Villa fans who support a team with genuine history we should be constantly on the offensive against these types of takeovers which make the league less competitive and, more importantly, make it more difficult for established clubs like ours to win anything 

[MrBlack]

They have broke the rules, but the PL let them.

They have inflated sleeve and shirt sponsorship from companies that they are effectively owned by.  Deals that no independent company would match.

Yet the PL thought they were fair value.

Arguably is only a way to circumvent the unfair FFP rules established to protect the big 4/ scum 6, but clubs like us and most of the league can't do that because we don't have affiliated companies happy to throw tens of millions at us that they won't see an equivalent return on.

Anyway, that's only part of the reason I won't celebrate their breaking up of the sky 6. Mainly its the fact Saudi Arabia continues to kill multiple people every week for the most ridiculous of reasons (in breach of international law), and they're being gifted a way to continue their regime through the sporting world. It stinks, and Newcastle are a huge part of that now. 

[alex7783]

Add to this that we also now have a national media fawning over them and even lauding them for using 'savvy' betting sponsorships to navigate FFP whilst we were heavily criticised for BK8 - to be clear I'm no fan of the BK8 deal but it is double standards to criticize us for betting sponsorships while praising Newcastle.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/06/newcastle-united-saudi-takeover-two-years-on/

Edited October 6, 2023 by alex7783

[Chindie]

Newcastle United are dead.

All that exists is the skin of the club that the beast that consumed them is using to get into the league.

Celebrating the 'success' of such a creature, that exists to wash their image of murder, dismemberment, social crackdowns brutal in nature, war... nah, you're alright.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Chindie

[TheFish]

On 06/10/2023 at 10:55, MrBlack said:

They have broke the rules, but the PL let them.

They have inflated sleeve and shirt sponsorship from companies that they are effectively owned by.  Deals that no independent company would match.

Yet the PL thought they were fair value.

Arguably is only a way to circumvent the unfair FFP rules established to protect the big 4/ scum 6, but clubs like us and most of the league can't do that because we don't have affiliated companies happy to throw tens of millions at us that they won't see an equivalent return on.

Anyway, that's only part of the reason I won't celebrate their breaking up of the sky 6. Mainly its the fact Saudi Arabia continues to kill multiple people every week for the most ridiculous of reasons (in breach of international law), and they're being gifted a way to continue their regime through the sporting world. It stinks, and Newcastle are a huge part of that now. 

I find issue with some of this.

This 'fair value' thing is a nonsense anyway; who decides what's fair? Especially when there are inflated or suspect sponsorship deals in the PL already, Everton's training ground sponsorship e.g. Is £25m a year unfair for a resurgent Newcastle United, in the Champions League, last seasons League Cup finalists, signing exciting talent, playing exciting football. A team with short term targets of expanding the Top 6 to a Top 7? Maybe it is, I'm not sure. And that's the problem with 'fair value'. 

The Sela deal is much bigger than our previous one, but still some way short of the deals for the other Champions League clubs. It also reflects the lofty ambitions of the owners (more on them later) and the likelihood that we'll meet those ambitions. The Noom sleeve deal is similar.

Could we have struck similar deals with some American hedge fund company? Maybe, who knows? As this was very much a confluence of events. Still early under the new ownership, NO existing CCO or CFO, no existing commercial relationships to build on or branch from, the owners wanting to promote Saudi Arabia globally, and of course unexpectedly getting into Champions League. So I've no doubt the new board cast around and miraculously uncovered a hitherto unheard of Saudi company to stump up the cash, and any argument about fairness is moot.

With regards to the ownership, I agree, they shouldn't own a Premier League football club. It shouldn't have been allowed to happen. The Owners and Directors test shouldn't permit foreign state ownership, they shouldn't permit someone who's even suspected of Human Rights violations anywhere near the table. But the PL saw the wealth and wanted a piece of it.

[Pinebro]

Looks like European Football will take a toll on their league form.

Will be difficult for them to make top 4 again.

Finishing 3rd in their group and winning Europa may be their best ticket.

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Looks like European Football will take a toll on their league form.

Will be difficult for them to make top 4 again.

Finishing 3rd in their group and winning Europa may be their best ticket.

? 

They're only 4 points off the top 4 having had a difficult opening fixture list. They've now only really got 3 difficult games (Arsenal, Utd, Spurs) in the next 11 rounds of fixtures until the 30th December. 

Bit premature to be making the statement you're making TBH. 

[TheFish]

On 05/10/2023 at 14:01, S-Platt said:

I don't see Newcastle dominating like City I think that's all on Pep.  Just need someone break the camels back.  You would hope the Premier League would throw the book at them but we all know they won't.

I think you're right here. Man City are currently dominant because they've got a fantastic squad with arguably the best manager on the planet. We've seen how quickly Man United have 'fallen' when they've failed to replace their iconic manager, let see how Man City fare without Pep.

I think the Premier League is more competitive than people give it credit. Yes, Man City appear to have dominated the title for the last few years, but it has often been pretty **** close. Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd have all pushed them close. In the 7 seasons since Pep came in, Chelsea and Liverpool have won a title each, and on two occasions the title was decided by a single point. 

At the same time you have 2 or 3 clubs pushing those traditional 'Top 6' clubs by being wealthy and/or well run. Brighton, yourselves and Newcastle are now a genuine threat to clubs like Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea. None of these clubs are throwing the kinds of sums that we saw Chelsea and Man City splash when they were looking to break into the top of the table discussion. 

[TheFish]

49 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Looks like European Football will take a toll on their league form.

Will be difficult for them to make top 4 again.

Finishing 3rd in their group and winning Europa may be their best ticket.

We're unbeaten in the League after our European nights. We've beaten Burnley and drawn away at West Ham. We were 5 minutes away from winning there as well. 

I doubt we'll break into the top 4 again, but that's chiefly because I expect the teams who last season had stinkers (by their standards), doing better this time around. Chelsea already look better on paper, Liverpool and Spurs look better on paper and on the pitch. 

We're currently top of the CL table with the toughest home game test passed with flying colours. While we've no chance of winning the Champions League I'd prefer to progress in that to the next round at least, then drop out with our heads held high. Better that than further fixture congestion in the Europa League and still have really good clubs to face like; Atalanta, Roma, Villareal, Marseille, Liverpool, West Ham, Brighton.