The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

but what I see is someone who is learning from those mistakes and has a plan in place to grow the club

And this is what I said earlier. We're now meant to be happy because our owner MIGHT have a plan to take us back to a level that we were at under our previous owner, which we deemed unacceptable.

but they appear to be based on nothing more than gut feeling and rumour

The same could also be said about what you posted above. Edited May 22, 2013 by Big_John_10

[ozvillafan]

 

but what I see is someone who is learning from those mistakes and has a plan in place to grow the club

And this is what I said earlier. We're now meant to be happy because our owner MIGHT have a plan to take us back to a level that we were at under our previous owner, which we deemed unacceptable.

but they appear to be based on nothing more than gut feeling and rumour

The same could also be said about what you posted above.

 

 

You have a disturbing habit of picking odd sentences out of context to try and prove a point.

 

Might have a plan? These deductions are based on what we are seeing on the pitch, in our transfer targets under Lambert and our financial results. If you have an alternate view on these events, you are free to voice them.

 

And I never mentioned that we should be happy - you made that one up.

 

Neither did I claim that these plans put us back to where we were under Doug - you made that one up too.

 

It might be a good idea to be a little more objective and a little less dismissive when responding to others views.

[LondonLax]

In the last 5 years the highest net spenders in the premier league on tranfer fees are:

 

1) Man City

2) Chelsea

3) Stoke

4) Aston Villa

 

We are also the 6th highest wage payers in the permier league.

 

We run at a massive loss proped up by loans from our sugar daddy every season.

 

You can say what you like about the crap decisions made by Lerner but you can't accuse him of not backing us finacially.

[PussEKatt]

In the last 5 years the highest net spenders in the premier league on tranfer fees are:

 

1) Man City

2) Chelsea

3) Stoke

4) Aston Villa

 

We are also the 6th highest wage payers in the permier league.

 

We run at a massive loss proped up by loans from our sugar daddy every season.

 

You can say what you like about the crap decisions made by Lerner but you can't accuse him of not backing us finacially.

That`s not bad then, the 4th biggest spenders finishing 15th

[Big_John_10]

Might have a plan? These deductions are based on what we are seeing on the pitch, in our transfer targets under Lambert and our financial results. If you have an alternate view on these events, you are free to voice them.

What we're seeing is a club barely surviving. This could also easily show that Lerner is keeping costs down, staying in the league while looking to sell. I don't think anything we've seen so far suggests anything 100% certain.

And I never mentioned that we should be happy - you made that one up.

Wasn't aimed at you in particular.

Neither did I claim that these plans put us back to where we were under Doug - you made that one up too.

Where do you see this plan taking us?

It might be a good idea to be a little more objective and a little less dismissive when responding to others views.

What have I dismissed? I've just said above I don't think anything regarding a plan is 100% clear right now.

You have a disturbing habit of picking odd sentences out of context to try and prove a point.

Disturbing? I don't see the point in quoting a whole piece is if its only one or two points I'm going to debate on. I've don't see what I've taken out of context.

[Zatman]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

 

its a complete different era in English football. if Ellis was in charge still we would be in League 1 now with probably Gary Megson in charge

[mykeyb]

In the last 5 years the highest net spenders in the premier league on tranfer fees are:

 

1) Man City

2) Chelsea

3) Stoke

4) Aston Villa

 

We are also the 6th highest wage payers in the permier league.

 

We run at a massive loss proped up by loans from our sugar daddy every season.

 

You can say what you like about the crap decisions made by Lerner but you can't accuse him of not backing us finacially.

 

It would be interesting to see how it compares over the last 2 years.

[Big_John_10]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

 

its a complete different era in English football. if Ellis was in charge still we would be in League 1 now with probably Gary Megson in charge

That's irrelevant for this question.

The point is would you rather success with an owner you don't like of mediocrity with an owner you do?

[Zatman]

well as I said many times top 6 is not an achievement. you dont win anything for top 6. plus we had top 6 and European football with Randy and close to winning a cup. we had relegation with Doug

 

Ellis is hated mainly for destroying the European Cup winning team

[Big_John_10]

Ellis is hated mainly for destroying the European Cup winning team

I'm not sure i agree.

Was the £ sign protest about that? Were all the Ellis out protests, signs and chants because of that?

[CI]

Ellis for many years was by far the highest paid chairman in English football, he bled villa for his own personal gain , the only big money he spent was the Ntl money , god knows how much he made on the flotation aswell . All in all he was poor and we have a much better owner now.

[Big_John_10]

Ellis for many years was by far the highest paid chairman in English football, he bled villa for his own personal gain , the only big money he spent was the Ntl money , god knows how much he made on the flotation aswell . All in all he was poor and we have a much better owner now.

And with all what you say there we've finished with less points than we did with such a poor owner the last two seasons.

[CI]

In terms of financial backing, you simply cannot knock Lerner

[Zatman]

 

Ellis for many years was by far the highest paid chairman in English football, he bled villa for his own personal gain , the only big money he spent was the Ntl money , god knows how much he made on the flotation aswell . All in all he was poor and we have a much better owner now.

And with all what you say there we've finished with less points than we did with such a poor owner the last two seasons.

 

 

different situations which you keep ignoring. Football is a lot different since 2003 in terms of finances, tactics and ability to attract players

[Big_John_10]

Ellis for many years was by far the highest paid chairman in English football, he bled villa for his own personal gain , the only big money he spent was the Ntl money , god knows how much he made on the flotation aswell . All in all he was poor and we have a much better owner now.

And with all what you say there we've finished with less points than we did with such a poor owner the last two seasons.

 

different situations which you keep ignoring. Football is a lot different since 2003 in terms of finances, tactics and ability to attract players

Is it that different?

Were there not 3/4 teams we couldn't compete with financially? Did good players not go to teams that paid them high wages?

I fail to see why it's so difficult in the modern era to have a club like ours not be struggling to survive.

[TrentVilla]

In terms of financial backing, you simply cannot knock Lerner

 

 

I tell you what, go and look at what our net spend is on transfers over his entire time here then divide it by the number of transfer windows and work out the average investment per window during his time here.

 

When you've done that, which I have previously, see if you still believe this.

 

I appreciate there are other forms of investment such as the loans and wages but I think you will get a surprise when you look at our net spend by windows in his time here.

[LondonLax]

What would you rather?

Top 6 football, European football and the odd cup win with Doug?

Or midtable nothingness with Lerner?

I'd be surprised if anyone chose option 2 because winning and finishing high in the league is what football is all about.

its a complete different era in English football. if Ellis was in charge still we would be in League 1 now with probably Gary Megson in charge

That's irrelevant for this question.

The point is would you rather success with an owner you don't like of mediocrity with an owner you do?

I don't see how it is irrelevant.

Ellis was a terrible owner in charge during an era where you could have a terrible owner and still compete.

Lerner is a flawed owner in charge at a time where you need massive investment to compete.

I would rather a flawed owner than a terrible one and if we are using your pointless hypothetical the best option would be to have had Lerner in charge of Aston Villa in the 80s-90s. We would have won everything there was to win with his investment back then.

[thetrees]

 

 

One thing I do notice about the way we talk about him, there's the idea that he's significantly changed in recent years - it seems to me that his investment of his own money has been pretty consistent since day one, our losses have made it a less effective investment every year, but it seems to me without a great deal of research that he's remained at pretty much the same level in terms of investment of his own money since he bought the club. It also seems to me that he's been coming over to the UK with pretty much the same frequency since day one, there's an idea that he doesn't come over much anymore, but he was over eight times this season and I don't think he was ever over much more than that. I think results and the things he's done when he's been here have changed how we perceive him rather than his behaviour having actually changed. I might be wrong on that but there you go.

 

 

He most certainly doesn't visit as often as he did in the early days, but there could be any number of reasons for that.

The first thing that springs to mind is that his first manager, Martin O'Neill was appointed during the takeover after discussions with Mr Lerner, and by his predecessor, Mr Ellis. It can therefore be deduced that said manager may have regarded his 'boss' as the Chairman, and that no one else in the club was either between him and the chairman, or even at his level.

It has been clear with subsequent appointments that the Chief Executive has been involved every step of the way, and that all of the managers, including the present one, understand that they are working on an equal footing with the Chief Executive, and that both are answerable to the Chairman. So less 'management' attention required by Mr Lerner, particular if that time was taken managing friction between senior employees.

 

The other thing is the various projects with which he took close personal interest-the training ground, the Holte pub, and the Trinity road hospitality areas. All of that investment is now complete.

 

Added to that we have heard the speculation regarding his divorce, and access to his children. There is also the cruel, but not necessarily unbelievable rumour that he has had his wrists slapped by his mother for spending so much money on his English football club, and that he has had to curb his spending.

 

I still feel that he is in for the long term and if not , I fear who the next one could be that many appear to wish for.

[VillaForever1970]

I fear who the next one could be that many appear to wish for.

Ah yes that is easily forgotten, for all the hatred Lerner seems to bring out of folk there are far far worse owners than him.

I'm not saying we couldn't do better, we obviously could but we could also do a lot worse and its defiantly a case of be careful of what you wish for.

Anyone remember Darlington, George Reynolds, Asprilla and all that. Well Reynolds ended up in prison and just try and find what league Darlington are in now, he's a hint a few above Sunday league give or take.

[Kwan]

His heart is in the right place, I believe.

 

It's just a matter of competency and how long he will wait to reinvest when he's sure that there's a manager that won't go bollocks up on him like MON