CI Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think the interest is still there The interest is all about damage limitation against his investment He has no interest in the football in terms of showing support by turning up to games or the style of football we are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think the interest is still there, I just don't agree. He appointed Mcleish knowing the reaction it would cause. He rarely attends games and he seems to be sticking with a manager who is delivering the worst season we've ever had in the premier league. The idea that he's interested seems to be based on hope rather than actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Randy has never been a public figure CI - it's clear from day one that he isn't interested in the limelight. This wasn't a problem when we were doing well, so it isn't a problem for me now either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think the interest is still there, I just don't agree. He appointed Mcleish knowing the reaction it would cause. He rarely attends games and he seems to be sticking with a manager who is delivering the worst season we've ever had in the premier league. The idea that he's interested seems to be based on hope rather than actions. I agree with you BJ10. The interest, knowledge/ability and cash just aren't there any more. The knowledge/ability never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 15, 2012 The idea that he's interested seems to be based on hope rather than actions. Quite the opposite. He comes over regularly, he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club. The actions show he is interested. He isn't able to get to games at weekends because of family issues, but he does come in the week. The idea that he isn't interested seems more based on disillusionment with the team and manager and him than actual facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Randy has never been a public figure CI - it's clear from day one that he isn't interested in the limelight. This wasn't a problem when we were doing well, so it isn't a problem for me now either. Lexicon, remember seasons 1 and 2, Lerner was at most games home and away, even last season under GED he got to a few games including Chelsea away, this season he's been once in 32 games (Norwich home), probably to get some recipe ideas for his new muse off Delia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 15, 2012 The idea that he's interested seems to be based on hope rather than actions. Quite the opposite. He comes over regularly, he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club. The actions show he is interested. He isn't able to get to games at weekends because of family issues, but he does come in the week. The idea that he isn't interested seems more based on disillusionment with the team and manager and him than actual facts. Personally I don't think either view point is definitive, neither is fact both are just personal interpretations of what is happening and I don't think either can be dismissed. On all points raised quite plausible alternative interpretations can be offered on the same point. For instance we know Randy invested £20m of his own money recently it is easy to say that is evidence of his continue interest but it is also easy to say that has nothing to do with continued interest but it is more a financial requirement for the running of one of his largest financial assets. The truth is we don't know which of these two is correct, it may even be a combination of the two. In terms of him not being able to come at wkends because of family issues, I have no idea if this is correct or not. I've not read that anywhere, it is possible I've missed it but it is possible this isn't the case as well. The problem is we just don't know because Randy doesn't talk to us, the General is long gone and on the rare occasions Paul Faulkner opens his mouth he usually fills it with his foot and leaves us wishing he hadn't bothered. At the moment I don't think we've enough to say which view point is correct regarding Randy's interest levels only our own interpretations. Personally, I think he remains interested but his interest has changed. Its changed from being interested in the football side of the club, in the fans and in progress to a more pragmatic business like approach. I think the club is more an asset now than a personal play thing but that is just my personal take on it. At the moment we just don't know the truth of the matter but I think we will have a fairly clear indication after this summer and over the next 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 We've also had plenty of midweek games he's missed So that argument is blown out of the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club Isn't this because he needed to? This shows interest in looking after his investment rather than interest in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club Isn't this because he needed to? This shows interest in looking after his investment rather than interest in the club. I do get the picture of him rolling his eyes and sighing followed by "they need more money?!!?".. He's not bothered about us he just doesn't want his investment tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's a strange one - Lerner is like a man who has bought an old house, and every year he pays a lot of money to have a little bit more of it done up, it gets painted, re-wired and re-plastered and it costs him a fortune - you'd think by now that the house would be looking good, but unfortunately he's chosen to let a group of drug crazed travelers live in it so for the last three years all he's been doing is having to redecorate and replace the carpets. He's invested a fortune in recent years and it seems he's still putting it in, but until he can find a way to make that money matter, it's been completely wasted - I think the interest is still there, I think the investment is still available - I just think he's doing it wrong. I think your right for what its worth. I don't think mistakes are being made... by definition a mistake means t you should have known better. I'm of the suspicion they are just out of their depth at board level in football matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm of the suspicion they are just out of their depth at board level in football matters. This. Without being too specific with names, I would like to see someone like BFR or Taylor come in and advise. Both love the Villa and both have more experience than the current circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 15, 2012 he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club Isn't this because he needed to? This shows interest in looking after his investment rather than interest in the club. As a businessman looking after an asset there are lots of ways he could have gotten this money into the company, fishing it out of his own pocket to me suggests there's still some interest in progress. What worries me more is that he's spending it badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I would have thought Steve Stride would have proved to have been good to have around the place. I don't profess to understand the politics of it all, but some of these type of folk had invaluable experience and had the club at heart. I also suspect that Richard Fitzgerald going was a black day for the club. be interesting to have his take on things ....but hey, you never get the truth at our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 he recently put 20 million quid of his own money into the club Isn't this because he needed to? This shows interest in looking after his investment rather than interest in the club. As a businessman looking after an asset there are lots of ways he could have gotten this money into the company, fishing it out of his own pocket to me suggests there's still some interest in progress. What worries me more is that he's spending it badly. you need the right manager to develop the right set up,to spend it wisely. He hasn't had that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Let's just clear one thing up, the £25m he pumped in was to keep operations going on a day to day level Ie. staff getting their wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Let's just clear one thing up, the £25m he pumped in was to keep operations going on a day to day level Ie. staff getting their wages How do you know the money was specifically for staff wages!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Because accounts show we were/are losing about £150k per day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 15, 2012 They don't actually show that at all. At face value it looks like that, just dividing the losses over the year by the number of days in a year, but a significant part of the losses was in "player amortisation" where the "book value" of players is marked down as their contracts run down. In other words though the money spent on players has long gone, in most cases, it's still showing up in the accounts. So when we bought bought (say) Carlos Cuellar for 7 million quid, on a 4 year deal, every day his value goes down by just under £4,800. The money was spent years ago. The same principle applies for everyone we buy and this totals well over 50 grand a day in amortisation just in a quick calc based on players and fees I can think of. I'm sure there are other players on the staff that will up that figure further. Transfer fees received work the opposite way all the money received is instantly credited and it isn't spread out over time. Which isn't to say the accounts aren't a mess, they are. The mess is of Randy's and MO'N's making and choice, but the club isn't actually losing 150 grand a day in terms of outgoings v incoming money. It is losing money though, and sorting that out is a priority, mainly by getting wages down. If we're notionally losing 150 grand a day, or 1 million a week, spending 80 grand a week plus pension and NI on Ireland, and large amounts on the likes of Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Cuellar, Given, Beye, Heskey and co perhaps 300 grand a week on that lot is an easy and obvious target for correction. It's not going to be instant, but it's clearly got to be something they do. Finding replacements of better quality shouldn't be hard in most cases, but doing so while keeping wages in check is going to be very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 15, 2012 As a businessman looking after an asset there are lots of ways he could have gotten this money into the company, fishing it out of his own pocket to me suggests there's still some interest in progress. What worries me more is that he's spending it badly. I'm t sure there are to be honest OBE, as far as I can see there are two options. One is a loan and the other is by creating more shares. What other options are there? The only other thing he could do is a public float or private sale of a small percentage of shares. I don't see fans being keen on the former after the loses of the Doug Ellis share issue and I certainly don't see anyone being willing to folk out £20m for a minority stake in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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