thetrees Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'm a Villa supporter, and for me the Villa is bigger than any chairman, owner, player or, especially, team manager. Are you aware you've accidentally put owner and chairman in that list? Surely you don't think the club is bigger than Mr Lerner. That's why you defend him and blame everyone else for our problems. Post on poster BJ10, but as you have managed to write a post without including your three favourite letters (touché?:winkold:), I'll respond. No accident. Because I don't constantly criticise, or throw vitriolic abuse at individuals, it doesn't mean that I think they are above criticism. I don't know where I have supposedly 'blamed everyone else' I have always been clear that the man at the top is ultimately responsible for where we are today, and it is for him to sort out. But I can forgive people mistakes, as we all make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2012 I agree with just about everything Mr Trees has written for the last few pages. It's exactly how I see things, too. Oh and in response to a non-posed question If I was looking to you specifically for an answer I would have posted "thetrees as a support of Lerner tell me was this what you were expecting 5 years ago" or something like that... I would have said (and did say) I wanted the club to be run organically, so that it was self supporting, that more effort be made towards raising revenue, that the club try to be the best it could be. It's still what I want and expect. Where things have been achieved - revenue etc. then I give credit to PF and RL. I also give credit to RL and MO'N for the 3 years of enjoying being a fan again, after being utterly disillusioned with the state of the place under Ellis and O'Leary etc. before he took over. Ditto the improvements to the infrastructure and ground and so on. ALso credit to RL for putting his own money in, to give us a push towards trying to be better. Where he's got things horribly wrong is in managerial appointments and in not enough control over finances early on. I don't criticise him for the unforeseen and unforeseeable things - changes in the world's financial situation, his own financial situation, Man City and all that. I don't either, criticise the move to get back to what is always sensible - sustainable wages compared to income. Spending his own money to pay high wages and fees, that was his choice. He's lost the money. Shame it didn't work. The make up of the board is not right - PF is good at the financial side, but needs help, it appears with some of the other aspects. Ticket prices, like at most other clubs are not value for money, overall, though there are some good deals. We're in a bit of a mess - but not IMO as bad as when RL took over, and we've had some fun in-between times. We're not where I'd hoped we'd be - I'd hoped for steady improvement and the club being consistent top 6. And I think we've lost our way, lost our aim, purpose and vision. It's not clear what the plan is, or how the club thinks it'll get to wherever it wants to be. And they don't talk our language any more. The appointment of McLeish was a ill thought out panic move with no regard for the inevitable consequences. Utterly ludicrous. Definitely a mixed bag, and definitely not where I'd like us to be, but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis. I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter. Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis. I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter. Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo. Just pin pointing one of the positives but the infrastructure does matter and whilst results on the pitch is very important, when we do get a decent manager that training ground and facilities is only going to benefit us. It will mean we continue to produce good youth and when a new player turns up at Bodymoor to talk negotiations it is only going to create a positive impression and it could just be that that sways someone to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just pin pointing one of the positives but the infrastructure does matter and whilst results on the pitch is very important, when we do get a decent manager that training ground and facilities is only going to benefit us. It will mean we continue to produce good youth and when a new player turns up at Bodymoor to talk negotiations it is only going to create a positive impression and it could just be that that sways someone to sign. I agree to some extent but we produced decent youngsters in the past and managed to sign good players before it and I'm not sure it will be the final deal breaker. It did need doing though but I'm also sure Lerner spent the money knowing full well it would add value when eventually selling the club. In terms of our squad, our manager, atmosphere at games, attendances, results, league position, ambitions. I just don't see much of a difference at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Re: now vs Ellis - there is a strong case for us being far more **** now than before. Massively higher wage bill, massively higher debt, a board that does not know how to appoint a manager (/generally run a club?) and in serious danger of relegation. The one thing I'd hoped would happen is a ground expansion - as that would have left a tangible and historic mark on Lerner's tenure. But that seems to have fallen through as the North Stand remains untouched. We certainly used to be a far better prospect for any potential new investors/ownership candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just pin pointing one of the positives but the infrastructure does matter and whilst results on the pitch is very important, when we do get a decent manager that training ground and facilities is only going to benefit us. It will mean we continue to produce good youth and when a new player turns up at Bodymoor to talk negotiations it is only going to create a positive impression and it could just be that that sways someone to sign. I agree to some extent but we produced decent youngsters in the past and managed to sign good players before it and I'm not sure it will be the final deal breaker. It did need doing though but I'm also sure Lerner spent the money knowing full well it would add value when eventually selling the club. Who knows maybe Juninho would have signed had we had Bodymoor to impressive him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The appointment of McLeish was a ill thought out panic move I seem to recall it being a prolonged saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just pin pointing one of the positives but the infrastructure does matter and whilst results on the pitch is very important, when we do get a decent manager that training ground and facilities is only going to benefit us. It will mean we continue to produce good youth and when a new player turns up at Bodymoor to talk negotiations it is only going to create a positive impression and it could just be that that sways someone to sign. I agree to some extent but we produced decent youngsters in the past and managed to sign good players before it and I'm not sure it will be the final deal breaker. It did need doing though but I'm also sure Lerner spent the money knowing full well it would add value when eventually selling the club. Who knows maybe Juninho would have signed had we had Bodymoor to impressive him with. Possibly, and while our training ground may have helped attract better players under doug I don't think it's enough now when players will be looking at where we are and ambitions for the future. I don't think there's anything about us at the moment that would result in us signing players we couldn't under doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 It might be a painful analogy at the moment, but it's made me think .... if a person has cancer then action and treatment is immediate, and because of the speed of reaction it is often effective. If a club clearly has a serious and potentially dangerous football health problem, then ignoring the symptoms could prove fatal. Prompt action is needed Randy, the day after this season ends. This is similar to what I said 2 pages back. The longer Mcleish stays the bigger the mess will get, and then the harder it will be to rectify the situation when he does leave. He needs to leave on May 18th. And Randy can bugger off too. The cancer was cut out summer 2010. It is the secondaries that we are suffering from now. What a horrible analogy this is from start to finish especially with the current Petrov situation. The human condition is fascinating Trent. Diseases like cancer kill more people than they should because people are afraid to confront them. I've lost more than my fair share of family members to cancer and I dont take it lightly, neither do I treat it as something that should not be mentioned. The word cancer is defined both as an illness, and as a destructive blight .... in the community, objects, concrete, groups, society etc. etc. I wish Stan all the best in his fight against leukemia, but I'm not going to tiptoe embarrassingly around the word because it has affected a much admired sportsman. My analogy was meant to point out the apparent "heads in the sand" position of RL/PF in reaction to the blight that is affecting Villa at the moment. Finally I was proud and impressed by the worldwide reaction to Stans diagnosis, but I'm also aware that it was a totally over the top reaction to one mans misfortune. That also is part of the fascinating human condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 But the Villa is not bigger than the chairman/owner. He will do whatever he likes, and is. Dictator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I'm starting to think that Paul Faulkner has more power than we'd like to imagine....in fact, I think Randy has handed over the operation to Faulkner to oversee, and it's because of Faulkner's arrogance and stubbornness that we find ourselves in this situation. I think Lerner is kind of flakey, to be honest. I don't think he likes to get too stuck in with the nitty gritty side of the business, whereas Faulkner is his useful dog on a long leash, eager to get his hands dirty, but totally clueless in all aspects of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think that the end of this season will be a defining moment for Randy Lerners stewardship of the club. Will he rise to the challenge? Doing nothing is no longer an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I know we say this nearly every summer, but this is the most important summer in the clubs recent history. Sort things out we can look forward to premiership football at villa park for the forseeable future. Get things wrong and expect away day trips to Sheffield, Millwall and Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Remeber how we didn't want to do a Leeds..well we are looking at that situation right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Where he's got things horribly wrong is in managerial appointments and in not enough control over finances early on So basically, in terms of the football club, everything he has responsibility for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think that the end of this season will be a defining moment for Randy Lerners stewardship of the club. Will he rise to the challenge? Doing nothing is no longer an option. I doubt it he will run and hide like he always has done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 but I'd still prefer to be where we are now than where we were under Ellis. I'm struggling to see any real differences in the things that actually matter. Just that one wasn't liked and one gave us some gifts, a coach journey and has a tattoo. If Ellis was still here we would be lower Championship or maybe League 1 a this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Bring back Deadly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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