The Randy Lerner thread

[philthevillan]

Those finishes were only achieved by completely overspending on player acquisitions and the associated wages. Spend £20m on two defenders in Davies and Cuellar? Find out that they're not very good? No problem, here's another £12m to replace them with Dunne and Collins.

If O'Neill hadn't had silly amounts of money to spend, he'd have got nowhere near the top 6.

On the example quoted, Davies was out injured long term and Cuellar was playing week in week out at right back at the time that Collins and Dunne were bought. So I would be interested to know what you think MON should have done about the centre back positions at that stage.

Maybe keep Cahill...

I'd argue Cuellar is good, Davies proved to be a flop but as I previously stated - no manager gets every signing right. We should have kept Cahill but we didn't, we still achieved relative success in the league, including some fantastic entertaining games, and I still miss the O'Neill years. All those fans who didn't like him and wanted him gone are left arguing that we could do as well, if not better, without him. Well the proof so far is that we can't.

[PussEKatt]

Clubs on the way down are in need of investment so you buy them instead. Clubs on the way up dont need it. Chelsea being a perfect example.

Chelsea ?!

What did they ever win before Abramovich took over ??

I think they won the FA Cup back in the days of Peter Bonneti and chopper Harris.On top of that Abramovich replaced the whole squad, not just the whole team.Talk about investing/spending.

[Cule4life]

Yep that's right just focus on a manager's bad signings. Let's ignore the three sixth-placed finishes, victories against Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, the FA Cup run and Carling Cup final.

Big deal, with the amount of cash he spunked up the wall we should have achieved more.

The inbreds achieved more than us, they actually won some silverware..

The point is he closed the gap. He had to spend lots of money quickly to do that. He made mistakes in the transfer market but so does every manager. As time goes on in a job managers tend to learn from their mistakes too. O'Neill knew how to regularly to get results and was a great motivator. I'm fed up of hearing fans arguing that he wasn't good enough for a Villa side that could have realistically got relegated twice in the three years before his reign. The stats prove he was. A regular sixth-placed finish is a fantastic achievement for any club outside of the 'Big Four'.

Do you believe if he had spent any less we would have got that close to the top four? Do you believe any other manager would have achieved a lot more in under five years? Does Harry Redknapp get Spurs in the top four every year? Have we ever had the spending power of Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool or Arsenal? My answer to all those questions would be no. Some Villa fans wished for O'Neill to leave and I hope they now realise that old saying is one to always remember - 'be careful what you wish for'.

THIS !! 100% Im sick of reading the moaners with MON when we wouldnt be in the mess we are now. His motivation skills alone would see us in the top 12. AML's motivation skills will see us relegated and rightly so...

[Harry]

Clubs on the way down are in need of investment so you buy them instead. Clubs on the way up dont need it. Chelsea being a perfect example.

Chelsea ?!

What did they ever win before Abramovich took over ??

I think they won the FA Cup back in the days of Peter Bonneti and chopper Harris.On top of that Abramovich replaced the whole squad, not just the whole team.Talk about investing/spending.

Eh!! the FA Cup in 2000 when they beat a certain team who play in claret and blue from Birmingham.

Add to that the FA Cup in 1997, League Cup in 1998, UEFA Cup Winner Cup in 1998 and the UEFA Super Cup in 1998. And that fact they were pretty much always in the top six or so in the PL era.

[PussEKatt]

Yep that's right just focus on a manager's bad signings. Let's ignore the three sixth-placed finishes, victories against Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, the FA Cup run and Carling Cup final.

Big deal, with the amount of cash he spunked up the wall we should have achieved more.

The inbreds achieved more than us, they actually won some silverware..

The point is he closed the gap. He had to spend lots of money quickly to do that. He made mistakes in the transfer market but so does every manager. As time goes on in a job managers tend to learn from their mistakes too. O'Neill knew how to regularly to get results and was a great motivator. I'm fed up of hearing fans arguing that he wasn't good enough for a Villa side that could have realistically got relegated twice in the three years before his reign. The stats prove he was. A regular sixth-placed finish is a fantastic achievement for any club outside of the 'Big Four'.

Do you believe if he had spent any less we would have got that close to the top four? Do you believe any other manager would have achieved a lot more in under five years? Does Harry Redknapp get Spurs in the top four every year? Have we ever had the spending power of Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool or Arsenal? My answer to all those questions would be no. Some Villa fans wished for O'Neill to leave and I hope they now realise that old saying is one to always remember - 'be careful what you wish for'.

THIS !! 100% Im sick of reading the moaners with MON when we wouldnt be in the mess we are now. His motivation skills alone would see us in the top 12. AML's motivation skills will see us relegated and rightly so...

I think MON is a good manager,as for Van Gal as manager.Australia wanted him to coach the Socceroos and he turned it down.He said that Australia did not have a realistic chance of getting to the final of the world cup, so he was not interested.Under those circumstances he will not be interested in AVFC.

[kidlewis]

Pussekat got owned

[Mazrim]

Those finishes were only achieved by completely overspending on player acquisitions and the associated wages. Spend £20m on two defenders in Davies and Cuellar? Find out that they're not very good? No problem, here's another £12m to replace them with Dunne and Collins.

If O'Neill hadn't had silly amounts of money to spend, he'd have got nowhere near the top 6.

Correct. That tosser deserves very little loyalty from fans he showed absolutely zero loyalty to. As soon as the golden goose threatened to stop laying eggs for him to do with as he pleased, largely on players not good enough that we're still stuck with or have only recently left, costing us a fortune for little or no return, he scarpered.

Now his media mates are covering for his shortcomings and it's being swallowed up again like he's some sort of miracle worker. The truth is had Randy backed a better manager, like a Hiddink for instance, we'd probably have been in the top 4 a few times and far better off.

I dont want McLeish anywhere near this club and that goes for Woody Allen too.

[philthevillan]

Hiddink wouldn't have come. O'Neill was the best man for the job and we've missed him since. He got loyalty from a lot of fans but not all plus if you had enough money in the bank to enjoy life and fell out with your boss and he refused to back you with the resources you needed to do your job properly, I'm pretty sure you'd walk too. I don't buy this loyalty rubbish because if that was the case then why did Ron Saunders, our greatest post-war manager, go and take over at Blues?

[Zatman]

O'Neill was the best man for the job

if you want 6th he was . most overrated football achievement in history

[philthevillan]

I'd much rather be sixth than where we are languishing now.

[Risso]

I'd much rather be sixth than where we are languishing now.

The cost for those 6th placed finishes isn't a price worth paying though. Randy obviously went shit or bust, but backed the wrong man in O'Neill. How anybody could have thought that Heskey was the man to keep us in the hunt for 4th is beyond me. How anybody could have thought that Heskey was the man to keep us in the hunt for 4th AND pay him £65K a week is almost criminal insanity.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Mazrim]

Hiddink wouldn't have come.

How do you know that? Was he asked? I only used him as an example anyway. Somebody of that calibre, given the money Randy was about to spend, may have found it very tempting indeed.

O'Neill was the best man for the job.

No he wasn't. He wasted most of Randy's money on shit players on massive contracts so how can he possibly have been the best man for the job?

**** Martin O'Neill.

[philthevillan]

So it was all down to the signing of Heskey. Give me strength.

[Mazrim]

So it was all down to the signing of Heskey. Give me strength.

In essence, yes. In that critical period when we were flying high and needed that player to keep the momentum going, Arsene Wenger bought Arshavin and we bought... Emile Heskey.

That's what seperates top managers and... Martin O'Neills.

In truth though, it didn't take a genius to realise Heskey wasn't the player we needed.

[Cule4life]

Mind you 6th is pointless when you field a mediocre youth side to face someone in Europe. and that team done us twice to...

So tbh 6th was pointless and in that aspect MON gained **** all out of it and neither did Villa.

AML Is here only to collect money and thats all.

Fans hate AML

Locals hate AML

Hibs HATE AML

Gers HATE AML.

The Snails in the garden hate AML.

AVFC died years ago under the Ellis regime and were right back where we are but under different mediocre management.

[MikeMcKenna]

Those finishes were only achieved by completely overspending on player acquisitions and the associated wages. Spend £20m on two defenders in Davies and Cuellar? Find out that they're not very good? No problem, here's another £12m to replace them with Dunne and Collins.

If O'Neill hadn't had silly amounts of money to spend, he'd have got nowhere near the top 6.

Correct. That tosser deserves very little loyalty from fans he showed absolutely zero loyalty to. As soon as the golden goose threatened to stop laying eggs for him to do with as he pleased, largely on players not good enough that we're still stuck with or have only recently left, costing us a fortune for little or no return, he scarpered.

Now his media mates are covering for his shortcomings and it's being swallowed up again like he's some sort of miracle worker.

The truth is had Randy backed a better manager, like a Hiddink for instance, we'd probably have been in the top 4 a few times and far better off.

I dont want McLeish anywhere near this club and that goes for Woody Allen too.

It really is rubbish to claim "we'd probably have been in the top 4 a few times" had we had someone like Hiddink.

O'Neill did have a lot of money to spend but this was against a backdrop of years of under investment by ellis and the fact that other top clubs were still spending big numbers. Even when the money was spent we had one of the smallest quads in the premiership. Which was the reason we couldnt sustain the challenge in O'Neill's final year.

IMO 6th was as good as it was going to get given our inability to retain players and without another large tranche of investment.

[Cule4life]

He looks a bit like that old bloke on the old Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 that come out years ago...

Its almost uncanny

[Voinjama]

So it was all down to the signing of Heskey. Give me strength.

It wasnt ALL down to the signing of Heskey, but that January 2009 was the most crucial transfer window for the club. I remember leading up to it on these forums, people were saying if we can just buy a decent striker, we will get 4th ahead of Arsenal. There was talk of Darren Bent, Huntelaar and a Luca Toni, but in the end we got Heskey. If we had sóf signed Bent or someone of the same quality, I think we would of held of Arsenal and got 4th. The gap was only 7 points in the end.

The current mess the club in, is not all down to Heskey, but that is a big factor. The most important transfer window in the clubs history, and the club got it horribly wrong.

[MikeMcKenna]

So it was all down to the signing of Heskey. Give me strength.

It wasnt ALL down to the signing of Heskey, but that January 2009 was the most crucial transfer window for the club. I remember leading up to it on these forums, people were saying if we can just buy a decent striker, we will get 4th ahead of Arsenal. There was talk of Darren Bent, Huntelaar and a Luca Toni, but in the end we got Heskey. If we had sóf signed Bent or someone of the same quality, I think we would of held of Arsenal and got 4th. The gap was only 7 points in the end.

The current mess the club in, is not all down to Heskey, but that is a big factor. The most important transfer window in the clubs history, and the club got it horribly wrong.

Isnt obvious that by then Lerner wasnt prepared to invest in the likes of Bent etc? Heskey was a terrible buy but you cannot assume that money was available for better.

[Voinjama]

So it was all down to the signing of Heskey. Give me strength.

It wasnt ALL down to the signing of Heskey, but that January 2009 was the most crucial transfer window for the club. I remember leading up to it on these forums, people were saying if we can just buy a decent striker, we will get 4th ahead of Arsenal. There was talk of Darren Bent, Huntelaar and a Luca Toni, but in the end we got Heskey. If we had sóf signed Bent or someone of the same quality, I think we would of held of Arsenal and got 4th. The gap was only 7 points in the end.

The current mess the club in, is not all down to Heskey, but that is a big factor. The most important transfer window in the clubs history, and the club got it horribly wrong.

Isnt obvious that by then Lerner wasnt prepared to invest in the likes of Bent etc? Heskey was a terrible buy but you cannot assume that money was available for better.

But the money that the club spent after that period suggests the money was there. Surely they could see Heskey was not the answer.