pacbuddies Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 In 6 seasons Lerner has transformed us from a club that was going nowhere with a shit manager into a club that is going nowhere with a shit manager. Pretty impressive achievement! We are no better off now than we were under Doug and DOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Correction, we are a club going nowhere with a shit manager and a £200m overdraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's his fault for the financial mess we are in. It's his fault he hired houllier and it's his fault he hired Mcleish. If he hadn't taken over from doug at a point when we were falling as a club there is no way he'd get away with how crap we are right now. Still amazes me people are so quick to make excuses for him and blindly back him. How can anyone look at the browns and still believe Lerner is going to do anything good at this club? The Houllier appointment was only bad in hindsight. He let Lerner down badly and was the biggest disaster of the lot - he had Downing and Young plus £30m to spend and we were left with those two going, a divided squad, no manager and no hope to attract a decent manager in. Nobody really gives a shit about the Browns, they have won **** all in his lifetime let alone since he's owned them. Plus it's a gay sport and Clevelend is a shithole nobody in their right mind would want to go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The Houllier appointment was only bad in hindsight??? Most people on VT didn’t rate him and knew where it was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The Houllier appointment was only bad in hindsight??? Most people on VT didn’t rate him and knew where it was going. I'm pretty sure he was brought in with the brief of changing the footballing culture of the club over time. In those terms I think he was a decent choice given his reputation in football development and with Lyon. If Randy knew that instead he would take an instant dislike to half the team, ostracise them, look totally disinterested and need a £30m bail-out in January then he wouldn't have appointed him. It's last season and Houllier's poor job that really set us back imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I still blame the wage situation solely on O'Neill. Seems a pretty stupid thing to do. It's basically blindly supporting Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 In 6 seasons Lerner has transformed us from a club that was going nowhere with a shit manager into a club that is going nowhere with a shit manager. Pretty impressive achievement! We are no better off now than we were under Doug and DOL. And he's spent a fortune getting us back to where we were when he bought us. Fantastic businessman as well as great sports team owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I still blame the wage situation solely on O'Neill. Seems a pretty stupid thing to do. It's basically blindly supporting Lerner. Surely unless the owner takes charge of transfer activity like Ambramovic, it is the manager (or sporting director or whatever you call them at some clubs) who is in charge of getting value for money. All the owner does is give a certain budget for them to work to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I still blame the wage situation solely on O'Neill. Seems a pretty stupid thing to do. It's basically blindly supporting Lerner. Surely unless the owner takes charge of transfer activity like Ambramovic, it is the manager (or sporting director or whatever you call them at some clubs) who is in charge of getting value for money. All the owner does is give a certain budget for them to work to. Our issue was that the percentage of our income spent on wages was too high. Randy knows more about the money coming in and future money coming in more than any manager. If he set a budget then he clearly set it too high and if he didn't set a budget he was still the man agreeing to all new deals and should not have let it reach the point it did. After that massive **** up which saw our manager leave he then made another one by appointing houllier. Then after those two massive **** ups he decideds to go and completely out do himself by making the mother of all **** ups and appointed mcleish. The guy is a walking disaster when it comes to owning a sports team. Luckily for him he bought the club from a man most fans couldn't stand and because of our decline was able to provide fresh hope with what now seems like pretty pathetic pr stunts. We can only hope someone with more ability shows an interest in buying the club in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The Houllier appointment was only bad in hindsight??? Most people on VT didn’t rate him and knew where it was going. Simply a false thing to say. There was a poll when he was appointed and it was much more favourable than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Also, as much as I thoroughly dislike Martin O'Neill's methods, arrogance and that he in effect held the club to ransom, it is surely Lerner's fault for allowing this to happen? Ok, Randy was in a difficult situation due to O'Neill's popularity with the fans etc, meaning that he had to basically allow any requests MON had in terms of finance and transfers or he'd jump ship, but there should have been an initial understanding between the two (before O'Neill even signed his first contract with us) that the board would not give O'Neill a completely free-reign over transfer handling. If O'Neill wasn't willing to work under a bit of oversight from the board and engage in some internal discussion over transfers, he should never have been allowed to join us, no matter what first impression Lerner wanted to make with the fans by appointing a popular manager. That is Lerner's fault. I respect his intentions for wanting to make his team a success again, but there was no long-term strategy and he, and we, are paying for it big-time now. I hate O'Neill and I like Randy, but it is more the latter's fault I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 The Houllier appointment was only bad in hindsight??? Most people on VT didn’t rate him and knew where it was going. Simply a false thing to say. There was a poll when he was appointed and it was much more favourable than not. Not how I remember it I for one was gutted when we appointed GeD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 One point i want to make about O'Neill. Before being appointed at our club, did he not work for clubs with little or no fiance. He was noted for getting the very best out of limited players. So as it stands at the moment should he not have stayed on and worked under those conditions again with us? It therefore leads me to believe that there must have been a lot more going on in the background with Lerner for O'Neill to leave in the way that he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 One point i want to make about O'Neill. Before being appointed at our club, did he not work for clubs with little or no fiance. He was noted for getting the very best out of limited players At celtic he spent a lot of money and nearly crippled the club by giving over the hill players like Sutton, HArtson,Agathe and Balde(in particular) long contracts on big salaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 It therefore leads me to believe that there must have been a lot more going on in the background with Lerner for O'Neill to leave in the way that he did? I think that's clearly the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 There are managers where you could be pleased if the owner just lets them get on with it.....its called having full control. Most of the great managers like Ferguson & Clough probably had it and moreover wanted it to succeed. I think we thought we had one, but we clearly did'nt. That isn't to say Martin O'Neill was without success,he brought an element of hope & pride back to us and to some extent a bit of success if you call 6-6-6 and a cup final appearance as a bit of success. we as supporters can't have it both ways. Doug had control and was ctiticised for it, Randy gives the manager a decent leash and he gets criticised for it. The top and bottom of it was we thought we had a top manager who could perform in the transfer market and we did'nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 One point i want to make about O'Neill. Before being appointed at our club, did he not work for clubs with little or no fiance. He was noted for getting the very best out of limited players. So as it stands at the moment should he not have stayed on and worked under those conditions again with us? It therefore leads me to believe that there must have been a lot more going on in the background with Lerner for O'Neill to leave in the way that he did? Its anyones guess as we are not privy to the facts. My suspicion is .... He was challenged on the fact the majority of his signings were either not playing regularly on generous wages for their ability or having little impact on performances if they did play....we were slowly becoming a meal ticket to players on the way down. He was told to get rid .....and he refused and flew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My suspicion is .... He was challenged on the fact the majority of his signings were either not playing regularly on generous wages for their ability or having little impact on performances if they did play....we were slowly becoming a meal ticket to players on the way down. He was told to get rid .....and he refused and flew. would be my take on it as well. Randy was well within his rights to complain the money he was paying Beye and Heskey and they werent getting games. Waste of money all around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My suspicion is .... He was challenged on the fact the majority of his signings were either not playing regularly on generous wages for their ability or having little impact on performances if they did play....we were slowly becoming a meal ticket to players on the way down. He was told to get rid .....and he refused and flew. would be my take on it as well. Randy was well within his rights to complain the money he was paying Beye and Heskey and they werent getting games. Waste of money all around Yeah, I think similar, though the timing indicates that it was very much Milner-related more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yeah, I think similar, though the timing indicates that it was very much Milner-related more than anything. I suspect he understood he would get the Milner money for replacement players and was then told he would not gilbertoAVFC. The truth is out there and may appear in book form one day unless there is a confidentialty clause to prevent that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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