The Randy Lerner thread

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

"Under Doug it was the odd relegation battle during the premier league era, we've had 5 consecutive ones"

Different time, different circumstances, different environment. If Doug stayed on, I dread to think where we'd be now. He wouldn't have kept this club afloat if he'd have been in control post 2006.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[DCJonah]

Oh I 100% agree. We were only going one way under Doug. But after initially changing the direction (which let's be honest didn't take a whole lot of work) I think he's been pretty damaging to us.

With FFP and massive TV money for league places, constantly finishing down the bottom is going to do long term damage to the club.

[Zatman]

 

 

I won't forget the four years of cost cutting, but I won't forget the four years of challenging at the top either.

Yeah we had some good seasons at the beginning and we may sign off with an FA cup win at the end of his tenure. The McLeish/Lambert years were some of the worst in living memory but there seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel now. It's been a mixed bag, not sure we would have survived if Doug was still in charge

If Ellis was in charge McLeish would never have been employed in the first place and Lambert would have been sacked 18 months earlier.

 

 

and we would have been relegated in 06/07 when he ran out of money. all ifs and buts

[Zatman]

said it before but in less than 10 years he has now got 2 cup finals, 3 top 6 finishes and another 2 cup semi finals plus broke transfer record multiple times

 

 

on paper he will go down as successful in history

[DCJonah]

said it before but in less than 10 years he has now got 2 cup finals, 3 top 6 finishes and another 2 cup semi finals plus broke transfer record multiple times

on paper he will go down as successful in history

Under Doug in the premier league era, we had top 6 finishes, won two trophies and competed in Europe. That looked good on paper but anyone who looks a bit deeper will know more.

[Zatman]

 

said it before but in less than 10 years he has now got 2 cup finals, 3 top 6 finishes and another 2 cup semi finals plus broke transfer record multiple times

on paper he will go down as successful in history

Under Doug in the premier league era, we had top 6 finishes, won two trophies and competed in Europe. That looked good on paper but anyone who looks a bit deeper will know more.

 

 

true but people will always associate Doug with breaking up the 1982 team because he wasnt apart of it

[Grasshopper]

The football was better to watch in division 3 compared to what Lambert served up!

 

 

 

......With the likes of Andy Lochhead

 

[dn1982]

said it before but in less than 10 years he has now got 2 cup finals, 3 top 6 finishes and another 2 cup semi finals plus broke transfer record multiple times

on paper he will go down as successful in history

Under Doug in the premier league era, we had top 6 finishes, won two trophies and competed in Europe. That looked good on paper but anyone who looks a bit deeper will know more.

 

true but people will always associate Doug with breaking up the 1982 team because he wasnt apart of it

And also getting us relegated and never having a go to kick us on when winning the league or finishing top 4 was a lot easier than under Lerners tenure.

[DCJonah]

I'll move it here at the request of blandy

I dispute those figures for a start. Also, the money spent on managerial wastage, even if true, would not make much of a different whatsoever when you take into account fees, wages and signing on/agents fees of players.

Also, Lambert was one of the longest serving managers at one point so manager sackings is not only a Randy Lerner issue.

If the fans had been left to run the club with a 'let's just spend muney" attitude then we'd have gone to the wall ages ago! Out of interest, given the restrictions placed on the club, and the work needed to put us back on an even keel, what's the plan you would have had!?

You've made your feelings known over hundreds of posts and over two usernames, so excuse me if I take what you think with a pinch of salt.

Edit: "Had it none been for his poor decisions, we could have recovered from MON much more easily than we have"

This is the pertinent point for me. Who knows where we'd be now! But if I was now offered the chance to be 'there', wherever that may be, I wouldn't take it! I'm happy where the club is now. I don't know what the future will bring or how it will reflect the past, but, despite our ongoing relegation struggle, I'm currently very content and I wouldn't change (gamble) that for what 'could' have been.

You dispute those figures, well that's a good start. And £22 million wouldn't make much difference? To a club trying needing to cut costs already? Strange logic that one.

What would my plan be? Pretty simple, don't hire two awful managers, pay millions in compensation and continue to sign players on huge contracts.

I'm happy where the club is right now also, but that doesn't change the last 5 years and how that now effects us long term. And gamble? What gamble would have been worse than hiring McLeish and sticking with Lambert. If anything the last 2 months have shown how easy life would have been for us if we'd only managed to hire a proper manager once over the last 5 years.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

£22M is roughly a £10M player on a four year 50K per week contract, so it would be neither here nor there.

Great plan, but it's simplistic and totally meaningless. It's indicative of the Championship Manager culture of the modern fan.

One of those awful manager, whilst not working out, gave us the squad we have today so, for all his faults, I'm glad Paul Lambert was our manager through a time of austerity.

I believe in the long term it has shaped the club in a manner that is now well placed to push on again. If this isn't a squad that can't easily compete for top eight next season then I don't know what is; and it was built through a time of tough financial decisions.

There were mistakes, admittedly, during the last five years, but there was some method in all the madness too, and it's got us to this point.

[Raver50032]

I think without Benteke's goals (whether he moves away or gets injured again) will show that our squad is still a little thin of regular goal scoring aplomb to achieve a top 8 finish right now. We have been in Top 6 form of late, but I think we still need a back up foil for Benteke whether he stays, goes or gets crocked.

 

I don't bare Lerner any malice at all - I think it is time for him to move on however. Lambert did okay, though I think he could have got more out of the team (as Tim has shown this back end of the season) that he had assembled. For that, I believe he should have gone (one way or the other) a bit sooner than the apparent panic button of slipping into the bottom 3 after Hull away.

 

Hopefully, the future is now bright as we were originally promised.

[DCJonah]

£22M is roughly a £10M player on a four year 50K per week contract, so it would be neither here nor there.

Its not going to buy a squad of top players but wasting that money during a period where finances were bad, delayed the recovery from the initial problems. That was money just paid in compensation, add in the cost wasted on players signed by those managers and the money lost by finishing lower in the league. It then starts becoming big money.

Great plan, but it's simplistic and totally meaningless. It's indicative of the Championship Manager culture of the modern fan.

Come on, everyone in the country could see hiring McLeish was never going to succeed. And a lot had doubts over houllier when he was appointed.

One of those awful manager, whilst not working out, gave us the squad we have today so, for all his faults, I'm glad Paul Lambert was our manager through a time of austerity.

True and I dont have an issue with his appointment. He was my number one choice. But we've suffered more than we had to sticking with him and again, low league finishes in a time where money for position in the league is ridiculous is costing the club. Especially when FFP is so important now.

I believe in the long term it has shaped the club in a manner that is now well placed to push on again. If this isn't a squad that can't easily compete for top eight next season then I don't know what is; and it was built through a time of tough financial decisions.

There were mistakes, admittedly, during the last five years, but there was some method in all the madness too, and it's got us to this point.

I agree and I think there's lots to be positive about. But it hasn't happened yet, we've barely survived in the league for the 4th straight year and during that time been one of the worst villa sides in the history of the club, certainly the worst period in my supporting life time.

When the good times come I'll give credit but until then I think the criticism over the way we've been run and the decisions made are more than fair.

Edited May 7, 2015 by DCJonah

[dn1982]

As far as I'm aware we never paid out £22m in one season so over 4 years it's roughly £5m a year if the figures are correct. When you're losing £90m it's a drop in the ocean! We got to an unsustainable point after trying to get top four and it needed drastic action. I loved the first half of Lerners tenure and if we win the FA Cup it'll be a great end!

[Stevo985]

I think without Benteke's goals (whether he moves away or gets injured again) will show that our squad is still a little thin of regular goal scoring aplomb to achieve a top 8 finish right now. We have been in Top 6 form of late, but I think we still need a back up foil for Benteke whether he stays, goes or gets crocked.

 

We won't be top 8 next season.

 

And we haven't been top 6 form of late. Not even close (we're 13th in the form table)

[P3te]

Ultimately, despite the hardships of the last 5 years, if we come out the other side at the end of the season, I think it'll all have been worthwhile. We're one of the few clubs that has gotten a proper hold of its finances and established a proper sustainability, and that'll pay off in spades down the line. I'm not entirely sure people will look back at everything in a decade and think it was a massive disaster, but rather see it as "that time we got a jump on all the other clubs who were running unsustainably"

 

There aren't too many clubs in the league that won't have to go through a similar process to the one we've almost completed. Some will do it over a longer time period, others won't quite manage it in time, but us... we're done with it and we should, hopefully, be okay come the end of the season when it should all be wrapped up.

 

Overall, the record under Randy's stewardship hasn't been all that bad:

 

06/07 - Finished 11th. Last team in PL to lose a game. Signed Ashley Young for club record fee.

07/08 - Finished 6th. Qualified for Intertoto.

08/09 - Finished 6th. Won Intertoto to get into Europe for the first time in 6 years. Signed James Milner for club record fee.

09/10 - Finished 6th. Played in Europe again, League Cup finalists, FA Cup semi-finalists. Signed Stewart Downing for joint club record fee.

10/11 - Finished 9th. Houllier hired. Played in Europe again, League Cup quarter-finalists. Signed Darren Bent for club record fee.

11/12 - Finished 16th. The major black mark, the season of McLeish.

12/13 - Finished 15th. Lambert hired. League Cup semi-finalists, kids won Next Gen. Signed Christian Benteke. Major cost-cutting starts to end massive annual losses.

13/14 - Finished 15th. Major cost-cutting continues.

14/15 - Finished TBC. FA Cup finalists. Hire Fox, sack Lambert, hire Sherwood. Major cost-cutting should be complete. Club self-sufficient.

 

All in all, that's not disastrously bad when you take everything into consideration. 1/3 of Lerner's seasons saw transfer records broken. 1/3 of Lerner's seasons saw 6th place finishes. Almost half of Lerner's seasons saw top 10 finishes. Almost half of Lerner's seasons saw European football. 

 

And, we're self sufficient now.

 

Now onto the next steps.

[P3te]

 

 

We won't be top 8 next season.

 

 

 

I don't think we'll be too far off it, unexpected disasters excepted. There's really not all that much between 8th and 16th in the league, aside from a bit of luck with injuries. 8th is about the best we could hope for at the moment, so it should be the target. With the players we've got I always believed we were a mile off the performances we were capable of under Lambert, and Sherwood has shown that. The squad, as it is right now, is capable of to 10, just like it was this season, and last season

[Dante_Lockhart]

Imagine if we had played a full season like we've been playing since Sherwood came in..

[Stevo985]

Imagine if we had played a full season like we've been playing since Sherwood came in..

We'd finish 10th or 11th.

 

Which I'd take in a heartbeat!

[Zatman]

We would probably be top 10 and be among highest scorers and probably conceded in the league

 

at least would be fun

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I think without Benteke's goals (whether he moves away or gets injured again) will show that our squad is still a little thin of regular goal scoring aplomb to achieve a top 8 finish right now. We have been in Top 6 form of late, but I think we still need a back up foil for Benteke whether he stays, goes or gets crocked.

We won't be top 8 next season.

And we haven't been top 6 form of late. Not even close (we're 13th in the form table)

It will be interesting to see the table since Sherwood took charge at the end of the season. It will be skewed slightly by the first two defeats which were a bit of an outlier compared to our form since, but I still doubt we will finish 13th.

6 game form tables are pretty useless.