StefanAVFC Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think it's something to do with the fact you're constantly moaning about "surviving on the cheap" and how many fans have "lowered their expectations" which has implied you think Villa should be spending loads of money near the top of the table BJ. No I couldn't possibly think we should be doing something in between. Isn't that what we're doing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm confused villabromsgrove whats this about only 4m increase per season that HAS to be wrong it doesn't make sense for when new tv deals come out etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think it's something to do with the fact you're constantly moaning about "surviving on the cheap" and how many fans have "lowered their expectations" which has implied you think Villa should be spending loads of money near the top of the table BJ. No I couldn't possibly think we should be doing something in between. Isn't that what we're doing now? Did you miss January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 What the f***? I'm happy when we spend what we can afford its as simple as that as I don't EXPECT more than that. Talking about needs being met is all that matters and money spent doesn't sounds like a child. Or a bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm confused villabromsgrove whats this about only 4m increase per season that HAS to be wrong it doesn't make sense for when new tv deals come out etc Google "FFP explained" Paul, (2nd from top under Premier league) One of my sons mentioned it to me a few days ago and it made me think about our current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Transfers since Lambert joined. Numbers are from Soccerbase.com. Dunno how accurate they are. To be frank this doesn't really look like a club who is too concerned with keeping costs down. High earners are leaving and being replaced by younger players on lower wages, yes, but we're also signing a fair few of them and it all adds up. Do you expect more than this in the future?2013/14Players in Leandro Bacuna FC Groningen £3,000,000 Jores Okore Nordsjaelland £4,000,000 Nicklas Helenius Aalborg £1,200,000 Antonio Luna Seville £2,000,000 Jed Steer Norwich Free Libor Kozak Lazio £7,000,000 Aleksandar Tonev Lech Poznan £2,500,000Total: £19,700,000Players loaned in Ryan Bertrand Chelsea Grant Holt WiganPlayers out Eric Lichaj Nottm Forest Free Malcomn Melvin Notts Co Free Derrick Williams Bristol C Free Brett Holman Al Nassr Free Courtney Cameron Torquay Richard Dunne QPR Free Jean Makoun Rennes Signed Andy Marshall Millwall Free Barry Bannan C Palace Signed Stephen Ireland Stoke SignedTotal: £0Players loaned out Benjamin Siegrist Burton Shay Given Middlesbro Enda Stevens Doncastee Jack Grealish Notts Co Samir Carruthers MK Dons Nathan Delfouneso Coventry Graeme Burke Shrewsbury Michael Drennan Carlisle Darren Bent Fulham2012/13--------------------Players in Karim El Ahmadi Feyenoord £2,000,000 Brett Holman AZ Alkmaar Free Matthew Lowton Sheff Utd £3,000,000 Ron Vlaar Feyenoord £3,200,000 Joe Bennett Middlesbro £2,750,000 Christian Benteke Genk £7,000,000 Jordan Bowery Chesterfield £500,000 Ashley R Westwood Crewe £2,000,000 Yacouba Sylla Clermont £2,000,000Total: £22,450,000Players out Carlos Cuellar Sunderland Free James Collins West Ham £2,500,000 Connor Taylor Walsall Free Stephen Warnock Leeds FreeTotal: £2,500,000Players released Habib Beye Stiliyan Petrov I don't mean to be mean, but most of those fees are absolute bollox. Are they? The audited accounts confirm that what we spent last year was £21.7m. I may have mentioned it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Lowton cost less than 1 million, Westwood cost less than 1 million, Bowery cost a couple of happy meals. I'm fairly certain Tonev cost less than 2million. I even think the Benteke fee is incorrect, wasn't the actual fee closer to the £5.5million mark? Not sure why it has £0 for our total sales. We sold Bannan and Makoun for actual money.It's not terribly wrong but, quite a bit off a couple of the transfers in there.Annnnd, wouldn't that confirmed £21.7 million include agents and signing on fees rather than just actual transfer fees? Edited February 8, 2014 by blandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Those numbers probably aren't quite right are they? Lambert himself said the likes of Bacuna, Westwood and Lowton were really low. Under 1mil i thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm confused villabromsgrove whats this about only 4m increase per season that HAS to be wrong it doesn't make sense for when new tv deals come out etc It is correct. Its the agreed Premier League FFP rather than the Uefa FFP which only affects the teams in Europe. The Premier League FFP was put in place to stop clubs using the extra TV money on spiralling wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think a self sustaining club would be spending around 20% of turnover on annual transfer fees, 65% on wages and 15% on overheads. So with the new TV deal increasing turnover to £100mill, we can probably spend £20mill on transfer fees a year (summer and Jan combined). As for wages, I think a lot of people are forgetting to add on National Insurance at 12.8%, medical insurance at 10% and bonuses at average of 10%. Thats 33% extra on whatever you think the wage bill will be this season, plus around £8mill in non-playing staff wages. So if you calculate wages at £40mill, add £13mill in for the other costs, plus £8mill for non-players, and the wage bill is actually £61mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Good point ender, and as for the transfer fees including signing fees and agents fees on the audited account..... even if it did so what that is what it cost to buy them.....???? I'll look up that google link now seems I lack knowledge on something if that's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ok so looked it up and it says bear with me here..... For the Europa League/ Champions League you can lose 45m EUROS over 3 years and sanctions for breaking this rule ranges from a warning to a ban (who the hell decides what the punishment should be?). Also it says the maximum loss if the owner does not inject money into the club is 5 million EUROS over 3 years For the Premiership you can lose 105m POUNDS over 3 years or 15m over 3 seasons if the owner doesn't inject money into the club. There are no restrictions on how you increase your wage bill if it is under 52m however if your wage bill is over that amount at the start of the 2013/2014 season (this season) you can increase the wage bill by 4 million pounds per year PLUS ANY INCREASED REVENUE FROM NEW COMMERCIAL DEALS. Sanctions for breaking the rules include points deductions and other sanctions yet to be confirmed. So questions to be answered if anyone has an answer....... 1. Who decides what is a punishment should be and what are the thresholds for reaching each punishment stage? 2. The injection of money by an owner seems key here to help be competitive. Lose 45m euros or 5m euros over 3 years is a bit of a no brainer? 3. The Premier League rules will allow new clubs to the league to lose an obscene amount of money to try and stay in the league. What kind of an effect will that have on the established teams like us? 4. It doesn't matter what your wage bill is going into the season it could be 100m, 52m isn't a cap its just where this 4m a year increase starts. Wouldn't it be best to have a high wage bill at the start of the season so you have a higher limit to reach when you add the extra 4m a per? 5. It says "plus any increased revenue from new commercial deals" what counts as new revenue? New TV deal, shirt/kit sponsor, naming rights, etc etc etc etc. It throws up more questions to be honest and sounds wishy washy. Anyone shed 100% confirmed light on any of those questions?Oh yea and how many points to be deducted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The numbers in the accounts will include any potential add on fees or clauses. The cash flow is what would be nice to see, to see how much we "actually" paid compared to the amounts we could potentially pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 So will the fact we didn't sort out our wage bill sooner effect us in terms of what we can do under FFFP rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't think so, I think we did it just in time as such as I'm pretty sure we were making hefty losses before. I definitely think all these publicly announced commercial deals will be to try and help us with FFP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hopefully. I'd hate to think allowing houllier and McLeish to waste money would effect our ability to financially compete in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The effect of spending wont bother us in terms of losing more than 105m in the last 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Transfers since Lambert joined. Numbers are from Soccerbase.com. Dunno how accurate they are. [sNIP]Go to transfer markt. It's more accurate generally and this list is missing a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm not happy no matter what, no - but I'm willing to forgive mistakes and I'm willing to wait it out if I see there is a long term plan, and for me and quite a lot of other people it's plain to see that we're progressing and the future is looking alright. Hahaha 'alright' that right there sums it all up. Cheering on 4 years of shit because the future might be 'alright' Stuff of childhood dreams there. Cheering on? I'm not some happy clappy **** - I hated the McLeish era just as much as anyone but at least I gave him a chance at the beginning. After that I didn't see any reason to get behind anything he did after a while in charge because it was clear there was nothing to him. With Lambert, I'm willing to take the rough with the smooth in the meantime because I genuinely think things will work out and we'll be back in the top 8 and giving the top 6 a go, which is where a club like us should be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm not happy no matter what, no - but I'm willing to forgive mistakes and I'm willing to wait it out if I see there is a long term plan, and for me and quite a lot of other people it's plain to see that we're progressing and the future is looking alright. Hahaha 'alright' that right there sums it all up. Cheering on 4 years of shit because the future might be 'alright' Stuff of childhood dreams there. Cheering on? I'm not some happy clappy **** - I hated the McLeish era just as much as anyone but at least I gave him a chance at the beginning. After that I didn't see any reason to get behind anything he did after a while in charge because it was clear there was nothing to him. With Lambert, I'm willing to take the rough with the smooth in the meantime because I genuinely think things will work out and we'll be back in the top 8 and giving the top 6 a go, which is where a club like us should be. Take the rough with the smooth? Lambert has given us plenty of the former but nothing of the latter. I'd say the Lambert era is every bit as bad if not worse than the McLeish era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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