nobler Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The horrific Christmas period can never be expected but many fans before the season expected a tough relegation fight and that's what we're getting, I certainly did. We're not currently in the bottom three, we're hovering and we do still have a chance to stay in this league, so for me that is at least a positive. We've been banging on the door of relegation for the past few seasons and nothing has changed at board level to suggest we're even attempting to fight it. Honestly, blame Lambert all you like, there's not one single manager that we could realistically have that would have us much further up the league with the absolutely appalling squad of players and the general gigantic mess that looms over the club. Controlled by a chairman who has sat on his arse over the other side of the world letting our club rot away in front of his eyes. Lambert is a good manager, like mentioned in previous posts we sang his name and got him here because we saw in him something that we liked and suited our football club. We have seen glimpses this season of something, a spark that McLeish's team didn't and would never have, we need to stick by him. Seriously, it's really time we start putting pressure on the board, the mess we're in is their fault and theirs only. What happens if we sack Lambert? We get someone else in, then when extreme financial restraints come to play again, that manager will have to settle with more academy kids, and we find ourselves again in a similar position, then we sack him and the cycle just continues and the nightmare goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Really? Could you? I don't think even the biggest Lambert fan could argue he's done better than expected. I'm the biggest Lambert fan and I don't think he has done better than expected However BJ, you're a fair man - assuming for one minute that he signed on the basis of a financial plan (not sure why he did but there you go) which meant he had to lose Heskey, Makoun, Warnock, Hutton, Cuellar, Collins, Bent and eventually Ireland, Dunne, Delfounsco(?) and was limited to £18m (and low wages) to bring in replacements for those - where do you expect him to finish? As you know I thought mid-table would be possible, however as financial pressures become clearer, 15th or 16th is beginning to look an achievement The above notwithstanding the result against Chelsea and the second half perfromance against Spurs were not acceptable under any financial constraints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted January 10, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2013 He needs a chance, a season with our support and Lerner's. The reason we are this mess is down to the poor overseeing of previous incompetent managers (PF) who have systematically brought toxic players. When their mess is sorted we can build again, until then its going to be long hard road. People are still singing his name and that shows how much we have all learnt over the last few managers, we are no longer fickle. UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 10, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2013 I always thought we'd have a horrible time til Christmas, then after that we'd start improving. It comes as no surprise to me to see us in the position we're in. I have to say, i'm not so confident that we will now go onto pick up points. I thought by now we would have seen some improvement on the pitch. It's weird, I actually think we were playing better football at the start of the season compared to now. We started with trying to play football on the ground and to be patient on the ball. Recentley our main tactic has been to hoof it to Benteke which is very McLeish. I don't know if this is down to Lambert realising the players aren't as good as he thought or he's lost confidence it what he was originally trying to do. But I very much do fear for our safety, in the same way I feared for our safety under McLeish. Under Houllier I always thought we would have got out of it as I rated him higher than most on here (though, i completely understand why you didn't rate him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Like what? That Lambert had money and decided to buy young players clearly not ready? Vlaar being injured? Would he alone have stopped us shipping all them goals? Worse results than Mcleish and people still sing his name. What is in front of me that is telling you otherwise? Fed up of going over this time and again - he needed to fill 8 squad places and had £18m. If he had £50m he would have bought differently. Do you think he is buying young inexperienced players because he thinks they're great and they will slot straight in???? if he was made manager of Chelsea would he buy Bowery, Bennett and Westwood? no he'd buy Ba, Luiz and Hazard!!!! PL's mistake was beleiving that the likes of Ireland, Delph, Bent and Zog could be turned into useful players who contribute to the team - they turned out to be the useless lumps we all knew they were and so he has had to blood players in the first team who he bought as squad players Do you really think that PL is so thick that he doesn't know we need a new midfield and a strong CB? Do you think Delph and Bannan are his midfield dream team? If PL were to leave we would be in massively serious trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The horrific Christmas period can never be expected but many fans before the season expected a tough relegation fight and that's what we're getting, I certainly did. We're not currently in the bottom three, we're hovering and we do still have a chance to stay in this league, so for me that is at least a positive. We've been banging on the door of relegation for the past few seasons and nothing has changed at board level to suggest we're even attempting to fight it. Honestly, blame Lambert all you like, there's not one single manager that we could realistically have that would have us much further up the league with the absolutely appalling squad of players and the general gigantic mess that looms over the club. Controlled by a chairman who has sat on his arse over the other side of the world letting our club rot away in front of his eyes. Lambert is a good manager, like mentioned in previous posts we sang his name and got him here because we saw in him something that we liked and suited our football club. We have seen glimpses this season of something, a spark that McLeish's team didn't and would never have, we need to stick by him. Seriously, it's really time we start putting pressure on the board, the mess we're in is their fault and theirs only. What happens if we sack Lambert? We get someone else in, then when extreme financial restraints come to play again, that manager will have to settle with more academy kids, and we find ourselves again in a similar position, then we sack him and the cycle just continues and the nightmare goes on. Exactly this. I personally appreciate Lambert now, because it could be a helluva lot worse in terms of who is at the helm. He is doing the best with the resources at his disposal and hopefully our mercurial owner will wake up before it is too late. Unfortunately, it may take a Southampton defeat for the alarm bells to go off for Lerner and Faulkner, just like when we lost to Sunderland a couple of seasons back and then hit the market for players like Bent and Walker. And to that effect, it is very sad, because many do believe we have a talented manager who could really aid us in the long term if he is backed in the now, but if the Board fail to realize this, all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot for the hundredth time. I just hope they wake up before it is too late for any good to be salvaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Where does it say he only had £18m though? Just because he spent that much, it doesn't mean that's all he had. I think he thought this squad would be ok. Edited January 10, 2013 by Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobler Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It's pointless explaining it VillaCas if people don't understand now the severe wage restriction the club has been employing over the last few years and the type of player we can realistically bring in as a result, then they never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Please do explain why Lambert is so amazing, what is it he's done that warrant this almost cultist admiration. For me he's decent at best and still very much learning his trade and i do not think he is the right manager for us at this time and place, maybe in 5-10 years , but not now. It was too soon for him. That said i think we're stuck with him for the time being and that sacking him would be fruitless as Lerner would not find a better candidate. Villa are "too soon for him" are they - when he signed we were a **** step down from Norwich!!! What should he do - go and manage Liverpool or Spurs for 5 or 10 years and then he'd ready for us??? I don't think he is "amazing" - I think that he is a manager who could comfortably manage a team in mid-table (6th-12th) and has the potential to do even better than that in the future. I would put roughly him on a par with MON I don't think we could attract a better manager than him Point your criticism at the board or at the previous managers who left this legacy of shite and get behind PL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It's pointless explaining it VillaCas if people don't understand now the severe wage restriction the club has been employing over the last few years and the type of player we can realistically bring in as a result, then they never will. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Do you really think that McLeish's season was a success - mind-boggling!!! McLeish had the same money and a better squad to start with - he choose to use his money on three players Hutton (4m) - useless, NZogbia (9.5m) - useless, and Given (3.5m) not required. We are also saddled with long contracts on each of them with minimal sell on potential. The 'culture' around the club under McL has lead to the problems we now see with our senior professionals If McLeish had bought in 8 new players for the same money (and probably the same total wages) maybe 4 or 5 of them would be first team regulars now. Imagine if he had instead signed the equivalent of Guzan, Vlaar, Lowton, Westwood, Benteke, Bennett, KEA and Bowery last season and we were able to add another 8 new faces this season - what a much better squad we could have McLeish took us backwards. If you want to see his role as a success I think you are in a minority of one No mate you are missing the point. I don't think McLeish was a success and I don't think Lambert keeping us up would be a success either. I was pointing out that if you think Lambert keeping us up is a success then you have to say the same about McLeish otherwise you have double standards. McLeish had pretty much the same squad as Lambert, he just chose to use the old players and Lambert hasn't. McLeish also had less money to spend than Lambert, he had £14m and Lambert's had £18m so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where does it say he only had £18m though? Just because he spent that much, it doesn't mean that's all he had. I think he thought this squad would be ok. No you're probably right - he probably had £100m but decided that it would be fun to see if he could avoid relegation by signing only league 1 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 No mate you are missing the point. I don't think McLeish was a success and I don't think Lambert keeping us up would be a success either. I was pointing out that if you think Lambert keeping us up is a success then you have to say the same about McLeish otherwise you have double standards. McLeish had pretty much the same squad as Lambert, he just chose to use the old players and Lambert hasn't. McLeish also had less money to spend than Lambert, he had £14m and Lambert's had £18m so far. Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) No you're probably right - he probably had £100m but decided that it would be fun to see if he could avoid relegation by signing only league 1 players You're exaggerating things. I think he thought, if he got a couple of young players in and mix them with the likes of Ireland, Bent, Gabby and N'zogbia, we would be fine. Little did he know how shit our so called experienced players were. Edited January 10, 2013 by Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 McLeish also had less money to spend than Lambert, he had £14m and Lambert's had £18m so far. £17m - Hutton £4m (resale value nil), Zog £9.5m (resale value £3m?), Given £3.5m (resale value nil) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) VillaCas I know who the main problem is. I know why we are in this mess. I don't think there's many posters on here who have been more against the owner than me over the last few years. I'm fully aware of how awful he's been. I'm also fully aware of how little lambert was backed in the summer. Again I was one of a small group that said it wasn't good enough, that said the fees and more importantly the wages were pathetic when this squad needed so much improvement. But saying all that Lambert has really disappointed me. He wasn't my first choice but I was genuinely over the moon when we got him. I fully expected this season to be a challenge but I really didn't think that we'd become worse than last year. I really didn't think we'd be so bad in pretty much every aspect of football. I expected to see players improve under his coaching, I expected to see tactical decisions that helped us get good results. But it's been abysmal. I think lambert will do better with more money given to him, but I think most average managers would. Lerner is the main issue and problem at this club but that doesn't change the fact that lambert has been a big disappointment so far in my eyes. I'm not going to say he should be sacked or that we'll never do well with him in charge but I'm also not confident that its guaranteed to be great if Lambert sticks around. Just getting really fed up watching the club become so pathetic, so weak, so poor and so boring. Edited January 10, 2013 by Big_John_10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 You're exaggerating things. I think he thought, if he got a couple of young players in and mix them with the likes of Ireland, Bent, Gabby and N'zogbia, we would be fine. Little did he know how shit our so called experienced players were. Fair enough - I understand that he was shocked by how poor the attitude and performances of the senior professionals were. You could say that was his mistake or you could say that he had to find out for himself I can guarantee that he spent all that was available I think he will need 5 new faces this window spending around £20m - lets see if he is backed before we criticise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobler Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 VillaCas I know who the main problem is. I know why we are in this mess. I don't think there's many posters on here who have been more against the owner than me over the last few years. I'm fully aware of how awful he's been. I'm also fully aware of how little lambert was backed in the summer. Again I was one of a small group that said it wasn't good enough, that said the fees and more importantly the wages were pathetic when this squad needed so much improvement. But saying all that Lambert has really disappointed me. He wasn't my first choice but I was genuinely over the moon when we got him. I fully expected this season to be a challenge but I really didn't think that we'd become worse than last year. I really didn't think we'd be so bad in pretty much every aspect of football. I expected to see players improve under his coaching, I expected to see tactical decisions that helped us get good results. But it's been abysmal. I think lambert will do better with more money given to him, but I think most average managers would. Lerner is the main issue and problem at this club but that doesn't change the fact that lambert has been a big disappointment so far in my eyes. I'm not going to say he should be sacked or that we'll never do well with him in charge but I'm also not confident that its guaranteed to be great if Lambert sticks around. Just getting really fed up watching the club become so pathetic, so weak, so poor and so boring. Surely any manager deserves more than six months though? Particularly with a squad of mainly players in their development, it takes time to forge a proper team in a really tough league. I think when we see the likes of Hodgson and Clarke go into West Brom and have instant impacts, we think, "Why can't Lambert do that?" It's not the same though, West Brom (just as an example) have a squad of seasoned and experienced prem players, who just needed a confidence boost. We're in this position because Lerner decided to gamble on our future by really pushing the academy system, and employing a plan to build a squad of youngsters who grow strong together. It's brave and ultimately incredibly naive, I believe they thought if they could get through this season it would pay off. Lambert of course agreed to the job under these circumstances and it's a massive wake up call for him. I'm almost certain the likes of Steve Clarke or Chris Hughton would struggle as much, if not more than Lambert is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 But saying all that Lambert has really disappointed me. He wasn't my first choice but I was genuinely over the moon when we got him. I fully expected this season to be a challenge but I really didn't think that we'd become worse than last year. I really didn't think we'd be so bad in pretty much every aspect of football. I expected to see players improve under his coaching, I expected to see tactical decisions that helped us get good results. But it's been abysmal. BJ, in truth I expected more - I thought that the improvement (humour me) we saw up to the Liverpool game was going to continue. I guess it comes down to, is that because PL is not as good as we thought or that the problems are much worse than we thought or a little of both You know I believe that PL is the right man for the job - if he struggles I don't know where we go to next? I'd put PL on a par with Rodgers, Martinez, Pardew. With the current resources and poor squad I just can't see them doing any better Football is an odd game - you can be crap one day and great the next. Particularly with young players it is a confidence thing NOT AN EXCUSE but imagine Torres didn't score after 2 mins or imagine Benteke's two chances both went in the other night. You can imagine a different scenario unfolding. We need some breaks against Southampton thats for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 £17m - Hutton £4m (resale value nil), Zog £9.5m (resale value £3m?), Given £3.5m (resale value nil) That is still less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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