Nabby Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I felt we contained the game very well in the first half, the Baggies weren't really at the races, they definitely stepped it up in the second and we had no answer. The problem is that we don't have any leaders out there, we have players that bottle it, they just weren't confident with even a 2 goal lead and when they conceded the first it was obvious they were going to crumble. Point being I'm not entirely sure what Lambert could have done to change things, we just lack that tenacity and set of balls to see out a result. Losing Delph really hurt us as Bannan in a defensive sense was hopeless.Unfortuantly there wasn't alot on the bench to help us get back into the game , I can see why we brought on Holman but he has really regressed of late.His closing down doesn't make up for a basic lack of ability on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We hoof the ball far too much and his fullback signings do this more than most. We have weak players all over the pitch. See brunts goal yesterday. Lowton easily out muscled, Westwood out muscled and Clark too weak to do anything about lukaku holding the ball up until brunt appeared. I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to because stats, results and performances don't back up this so called plan. I'd love to come on here and see you post something positive about the team This constant, incessant criticism about everything is doing my head in I would think that our players are no "weaker" than any other teams. Bannan may be a little lightweight but apart from that I would imagine we hold our own. You're just taking one incident and then extrapolating that to be some sort of trend - when Benteke or Vlaar or Gabby muscle someone off the ball will it be ok to call our whole squad "supermen"? You could see the effort and application that was going in on Saturday - we are still low on confidence but IMO we are close to turning a corner. If ever there was a time to get behind the team rather than snipe at every opportunity surely it is now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We are passing longer than we should be by at least 2 meters, on average. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 This constant, incessant criticism about everything is doing my head in He also doesn't know the difference between a hoof and a pass. Playing a ball directly up front in the air does not always mean a hoof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'd love to come on here and see you post something positive about the team This constant, incessant criticism about everything is doing my head in I would think that our players are no "weaker" than any other teams. Bannan may be a little lightweight but apart from that I would imagine we hold our own. You're just taking one incident and then extrapolating that to be some sort of trend - when Benteke or Vlaar or Gabby muscle someone off the ball will it be ok to call our whole squad "supermen"? You could see the effort and application that was going in on Saturday - we are still low on confidence but IMO we are close to turning a corner. If ever there was a time to get behind the team rather than snipe at every opportunity surely it is now! Sorry. Do I need to be like you and convince myself of improvements when I post on here? We have some strong players but a lot of our team are physically and mentally weak. Especially in midfield. Do you disagree with that? And yes I think the first WBA goal showed that flaw in our team. He also doesn't know the difference between a hoof and a pass. Playing a ball directly up front in the air does not always mean a hoof. I know that the same pass under a different manager would be considered a hoof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2013 Surely the plan, which, you say is "the right way to go" isn't so much Lambert's plan, as the Club's plan - you know RL/PF and PL all together? So in other words, the club's plan being the right one is down to Randy and both Pauls and not something which you (anyone) could credibly criticise them for? And if the plan is right, then the reason we're struggling must be due to the implementation....and the implementation is down to the manager at least as much, if not more than, more than the board? That seems to be the logical thrust of your comment, doesn't it? No I dont think so, as the logical thrust of your argument is why do we need a manager at all? For me the owner and his ceo have set the corporate direction / strategy of the business / club and the plan that Paul Lambert is implementing is his response to that corporate strategy, it is his plan at how to move the playing side of the business forward bearing in mind the corporate plan that the owner wants to see happening. I do not think the owner or his ceo have specifically set the playing side strategy, the manager will do that. Now you can debate the merits or not of that plan and the implementation of it to your heart's content. But that is how I see it. I'd misunderstood you, perhaps. I was thinking you thought the strategy of cutting overpaid wasters/non-performers was right, that having the club operate within it's means was right. I hadn't understood that you were talking about tactics and so on - My way of looking at it is that selecting the younger players is strategy, giving them a chance is strategy. Tactics are the 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 etc, and play on the break, or play possession football - all that stuff. I think the playing tactics have been a mixed succes, ditto the strategy of playing kids, sometimes to the exclusion of some of the oler players, though I too broadly support what he's trying to do. I see the cutting of the OTT wage bill (as directed, we asume) by the board as being right, too. I think and have said from the start it's been like a massive experiment, and we're essentailly deliberately putting ourselves in the same group as newly promoted teams often are - lacking Prem experience. If we stay up, I think enormous credit should go to both the manager and the board, but with the caveat that they ruddy gambled/experiemented with our (footballing) safety, and I'm not convinced that the extent of the gamble justified the means. If we do stay up (and I don't think we will) then the club will be set much much fairer and better for the future, and I guess that's the prize and aim. If we go down, then things will be very different. He'll never get his money back, the Club will be put back a massive amount. I think Lambert's a very good manager in the making, and that we should stick with him, but I really want the defence and centre mid sorting out, and urgently. That's down to Lambert, and the coaches. It's a disorgainsed panicky mess far too often, and too weak minded and weak physically, despite the effort that's being given - it's mental, and organisational - and that's down to Lambo, as is the selection of one or two players who are consistently not performing to the necessary standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 For me, playing long balls to Benteke is useless unless he has someone to flick it onto eg Bent or Andi. Almost every time that the ball is smashed forward towards Benteke he is our furthest man forward. The only thing he can do is either try to knock it backwards or try to bring it down and hold off the defender. If he had someone further forward to try to flick it onto it would give him more options and probably more space because opposing defenders would be wary of someone running in behind. I hate that we often revert to playing long ball, but if we are going to then at least give Benteke as much help as possible when doing so! The problem with playing 2 up the top is that we haven't got the midfielders and wingers to play conventional 4-4-2. That leaves the option of the diamond midfield which we've tried and didn't really work or the 3-5-2 which has clear flaws too. I'd love to see someone like Robbie Keane up front with Benteke, I think he has the nouse to really get the best out of him but we would still need an entirely new midfield in order to make it worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If we stay up, I think enormous credit should go to both the manager and the board How low are the expectations of some fans going to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Enormous credit? Im not so sure. Sure the squad is absolutely awful, but he helped put it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 How low are the expectations of some fans going to go? The fans will always have higher expectations and rightly so, I hope to god we stay up and we keep Lambert because If what we think will happen happens then we may well see changes in the playing staff for next year and a decent budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myb Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Enormous credit? Im not so sure. Sure the squad is absolutely awful, but he helped put it together. Put together on a shoe string, in the process of creating one of the youngest teams in our history, clearing out the deadwood, for a club that's been in a relegation battle for 3 years. Credit would be due. Those that can't see beyond the manager at the demise which has taken place at the club in the last few years are doing us no favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSufferingVilla Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Aston Villa must stop conceding from corners, says Paul Lambert “It’s not rocket science. You go man for man. If it’s your man who scores then we know who was supposed to pick them up." - Paul Lambert I just have to wonder what the hell they do in training, the players are always haphazardly following their man around the box, fixated on the opposition players, ignoring the balls raining in. Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought that the best way to defend corners was to attack the ball coming in. You shouldn't have to worry about leaving a man unmarked in the box when you get to the ball first. Edited January 21, 2013 by TheSufferingVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Average pass length Arsenal: 18m Swansea: 19m Chelsea: 19m Manchester City: 19m Wigan: 19m Liverpool: 19m Manchester Utd: 19m Southampton: 19m Fulham: 20m QPR: 20m Tottenham: 20m Aston Villa: 21m Everton: 21m Reading: 21m Stoke: 21m Sunderland: 21m WBA: 21m West Ham: 21m Newcastle: 22m Norwich: 22m Comparison: Barcelona 17m 17-18 m = Short passing team 19-20 = Mixed passing team 21-22 = Long passing team We are passing longer than we should be by at least 2 meters, on average. Con, Surely if we were passing the ball a further 2 metres than we should be as you put it the League table would be a reflection of the average pass length table you have provided? It provides absolutely no argument to suggest if we shortened our passing we would be a better team. If it did Wigan would be in contention for a european place and we should be mid table battling it out with spurs and everton. Makes no sense! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Put together on a shoe string, in the process of creating one of the youngest teams in our history, clearing out the deadwood, for a club that's been in a relegation battle for 3 years. Credit would be due. Those that can't see beyond the manager at the demise which has taken place at the club in the last few years are doing us no favours. A shoestring? 60m spent in the last 2 years? Of course their are more people at fault than the managers, but if they had bought players who were any bloody good, we wouldnt be in this mess. 60m is enough to buy a whole team of half decent players. Weve got 2 or 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I just have to wonder what the hell they do in training, the players are always haphazardly following their man around the box, fixated on the opposition players, ignoring the balls raining in. Maybe I'm wrong but I always thought that the best way to defend corners was to attack the ball coming in. You shouldn't have to worry about leaving a man unmarked in the box when you get to the ball first. The problem is most of the goals scored against us from corners showed it was Benteke who lost the man, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Average pass length Arsenal: 18m Swansea: 19m Chelsea: 19m Manchester City: 19m Wigan: 19m Liverpool: 19m Manchester Utd: 19m Southampton: 19m Fulham: 20m QPR: 20m Tottenham: 20m Aston Villa: 21m Everton: 21m Reading: 21m Stoke: 21m Sunderland: 21m WBA: 21m West Ham: 21m Newcastle: 22m Norwich: 22m Comparison: Barcelona 17m 17-18 m = Short passing team 19-20 = Mixed passing team 21-22 = Long passing team We are passing longer than we should be by at least 2 meters, on average. This is just ridiculous. What on earth does this show. That we on average pass it 2m more in distance than some of the other teams in the league, and the same distance s other teams? What we need to worry about is that no matter how far we pass it, its usually to the other bloody team. Edited January 21, 2013 by Woodytom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'd pay to see you doing stand-up, Con, but probably only once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2013 ****! We are passing the ball 2 meters too far, now I know why we have been shit for 3 years. Someone get Lerner on the phone we've found the answer to all our problems...... In other totally unrelated news, Bannan loves a long pass doesn't he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The problem with playing 2 up the top is that we haven't got the midfielders and wingers to play conventional 4-4-2. That leaves the option of the diamond midfield which we've tried and didn't really work or the 3-5-2 which has clear flaws too. I'd love to see someone like Robbie Keane up front with Benteke, I think he has the nouse to really get the best out of him but we would still need an entirely new midfield in order to make it worthwhile. Totally agree with you sharky. Problem is though I also think the wing back system we adopt most of the time because of our weaknesses in midfield allows the opposition fullbacks to push on to much at times, then putting sustained pressure on the back line which in turn becomes too congested. Hence our inability to clear our lines or play the ball out from the back effectively enough allow forward momentum. The system works in a counter attacking situation but if you lose the connection between midfield and upfront as we did against albion, your ****. It's obvious we have massive midfield issues but I honestly think at the moment with the inexperience on the flanks we need to start playing higher up the pitch and attack more frequently. I would make the most out of the senior players now they are all generally fit. Revert to the 4-4-2 system, play Gabby and NZog out wide, Bent and Benteke upfront with Wiemann rotating with either. and get clark in the middle with ireland, Delp or Holman. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2013 In other totally unrelated news, Bannan loves a long pass doesn't he The effective length of a pass is proportionate to the players world classness. Barry Bannan passes nanometres. He only looks to be passing long thanks to quantum mechanics. This also explains why he also often passes to no-one - he's passing to a player who is both there and not there at the same time. Or some other such nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts