Manager Paul Lambert

[Isa]

If you are going to drop Benteke after Saturday, then you're going to have to drop the other ten too

The other ten didn't put in zero effort though.

[briny_ear]

I honestly think VillaTalk has reached an all-time low with some of the comments on this thread.

How disappointing for you. Maybe other internet forums are taking a more mature and balanced approach and may warrant more time and attention?

[BOF]

I think the manager might just show what he thought of Saturday by dropping Benteke. If he does, I think we can all accept he wasn't exactly delighted with the overall display either himself.

 

Also, maybe Benteke, like a few others, aren't 100 per cent fit. By taking him out of the team it will a) give him a give up the arse and if he doesn't have to come off the bench then it might improve his physical condition.

 

Big call to make though.

His quotes today on Sky Sports suggest he's going to back the big man and not drop him, while acknowledging that he is struggling for form. Although perhaps given that we now have 2 games in 4 days (or 3 in 8), it would be less of a snub to Benteke if he was 'rested' for one of them.

[LondonLax]

PS; I agree that it's not Morph's job to suggest a replacement. Just like none of us were expected to name McLeish's replacement when calling for his head

Sadly the football now under Lambert is just as dire/boring. And VP is becoming like a ghost town

So you want to sack the manager?

[Morpheus]

 

 

A comparison.

He never even mentioned our players though.

 

 

This is typical Morph

 

- First he claimed that we have, quote "a shite manager and shite players" and nothing will change until we get a new manager

 

- Then when asked who he thinks would be a better option as manager, replys with his usual "it's not my job to search out managers*

 

- He is loathe to name a replace for fear of looking an idiot as his proposal from last season, Redknapp, got QPR relegated

 

- He also pinpointed his prefered transfer targets last season, bizarelly Berbatov and Adam, who have been abject failures. 

 

- He also championed Bent to start over Benteke last season - the same player who is the poster boy for Fulham failure and a key reason for Jol sacking

 

No i'm not a Lambert supporter and have explained why on numerous occasions and that seems to have irritated some on here to the extent that they have created a defence mechanism to cover not being able to answer questions by attacking other posters.

 

Lets look at those 'preferred transfer targets' last season.

 

Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer. Adam's father passed away last year which affected his performance and since he has got over that hasn't he been one of Stoke's better players this season scoring two weeks ago so not exactly abject failures.

 

So Daren Bent has been the key reason why Jol got the sack? If ever there has been a biased opinion then this is it. 

 

What exactly were the other 10 players doing when Bent was on the pitch which wasn't often. Maybe they were on the sidelines having a smoke with Jol and Bent was told to protect the goal posts, stay deep to defend, pass to himself in midfield and then either cross to himself or play through balls so he could then score from his own pass. With a comment like that who is the real idiot here?

 

One other question and i'll use one of your own phrases. Lambert being your 'poster boy' what has he actually done to make anyone feel smug or arrogant enough to attack an opinion of a non Lambert supporter? I could quote all sorts of records and stats that you wouldn't like but lets just look at three. 1 He replaced the first team. 2 Those replacements under the stewardship of Lambert only secured our Premiership safety last season with one game to go. 3 We are currently lying 10th, an improvement on last year's debacle yes but playing some of the most turgid football Villa supporters have seen.

 

Now you'll have to excuse me but before you think of attacking anyone's post again i'd suggest you have something more substantial to back that up with other than the above.      

[villaglint]

I for one am on board with that - its a long frustrating road were on but it is where we are. You just have to keep faith because thats what being a fan is all about. 

 

 

On a side note asking "the internet" to settle down is a bit like asking the sea to settle down. This site has been full of over reaction for a long long long time.

 

I'm not too worried about that though because the irrationality of football is what makes it so fun. My heart is running at a million beats a minute on a Saturday and there is nothing about that which is rational or reasonable.

 

You have to embrace the madness!

Edited December 2, 2013 by villaglint

[Morpheus]

The difficulty i have with part of you post HH is that we only got out of trouble last season by playing some terrific football yet you now say we must wait another season before seeing it again. Nope that doesn't wash with me at all. If we got ourselves out of trouble last season by playing some good football then that should have continued and it quite obviously hasn't.

[AntrimBlack]

I think everyone should just settle down. The priority was staying in the league and not being embroiled in another relegation battle. I know that isn't exactly ambitious but it was the first target. Right now I think we are looking good for achieving that. I think other targets, such as cup runs and more attractive football, should maybe be set for next season. This season has to be about not living as dangerously as we did last season.

 

Agree with this to a large extent, but I think we have been very lucky with recent results, and the terrible football we have played recently could easily see us dragged back into a relegation fight.

[VillaCas]

 

No i'm not a Lambert supporter and have explained why on numerous occasions and that seems to have irritated some on here to the extent that they have created a defence mechanism to cover not being able to answer questions by attacking other posters  - LOL

 

Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer. - LOL  Adam's father passed away last year which affected his performance and since he has got over that hasn't he been one of Stoke's better players - NO

 

So Daren Bent has been the key reason why Jol got the sack? If ever there has been a biased opinion then this is it.

 

- From today's Guardian Bent symptomatic of Jol's Fulham failings

There were, of course, no shortage of Things That Went Wrong in Martin Jol's Fulham team. Point at it. You can be fairly sure, in one way or another, it went wrong. From managerial drift to a listless squad, to yet another case of Adelusion, a condition whereby sufferers remain convinced, even with mounting evidence to the contrary, that the answer to the question "how are we going to score goals in the Premier League?" is "by signing a meandering, brilliantly talented Moroccan who's very good at dribbling with his head down". Most striking during Saturday's abject 3-0 defeat at West Ham was the spectacle of England's Darren Bent, scorer of 151 league goals, but just three in the last two years. Bent was not to blame for Fulham's defeat, but he has a symbolic kind of anti-value. At times against West Ham he broke into a jog, most often when finding himself standing significantly offside. For the rest of the match he didn't so much walk around as walk slightly slower than most people walk even when they're not playing a football match. Perhaps he was slowed by the size of his shorts which seem to have grown rather in the last couple of years. Perhaps he was simply waiting to explode into life given the right kind of service. Either way, as the first half began to drag, it was tempting to ponder the interesting philosophical question of whether the presence of Bent in Fulham's attack was having have more or less influence on the match than Andy Carroll's absence from West Ham's.

This is perhaps a little unfair on Modibo Maiga, who was energetic as the lone striker, while Bent, who really should be looking to earn himself an endorsement deal as the face of a popular brand of walking boot, strolled the periphery, starved of the right kind of pass, but also seeming content to remain so. What a waste all round. Bent is still only 29. At a time when possession of a pair of boots and a shirt with the right kind of number on it is enough to earn a call-up, he might have spent the last two years playing for England. Instead his performances at Fulham look like a salutary example of late-career Premier League congealment, not to mention an indictment of Jol's allegedly wondrous contacts book.

 

I only pinpoint Berbatov, Adam and Bent as an example of the judgement you displayed last season when you were touting them as the players that should be signed/played to take us to a brighter future - my point was of course, and as you were told at the time by very many posters, these players would have been distastous for us. This has clearly been proved this by their performances season

 

I use these examples to highlight that your premature judgement of Lambert is also massively flawed - you've smarted up since last season though (slightly) by refusing to name any possible replacements (Redknapp was your hilarious suggestion last season)

[romavillan]

 

I think everyone should just settle down. The priority was staying in the league and not being embroiled in another relegation battle. I know that isn't exactly ambitious but it was the first target. Right now I think we are looking good for achieving that. I think other targets, such as cup runs and more attractive football, should maybe be set for next season. This season has to be about not living as dangerously as we did last season.

 

Agree with this to a large extent, but I think we have been very lucky with recent results, and the terrible football we have played recently could easily see us dragged back into a relegation fight.

 

Or to look at it another way we've not been losing games we would have done last year because our defence as a unit is doing it's job better.

Lambert should only be getting serious stick if by May we've only just avoided relegation again or worse. Anything else is a step in the right direction from where we were. Expecting us to go from getting regular pastings to pushing top 6 in the space of a year without backing him with MON levels of cash is wanting the moon on a stick.

[BOF]

You evolve from a solid base.  But first you must have one and last season we didn't.  Yes we finished the season with a flourish that we haven't continued from (even though pointswise we have...), but you don't want to be in that position again or having to play for your Premier League life.  That's a nervous energy they had; an unhealthy energy borne of the situation they were in.  We are now actually quite hard to beat and we've achieved that for a variety of reasons.  We've also achieved it without our more technically gifted players clicking form-wise.  Westwood, in particular, is key to an expansive attacking game and he has only recently started to show glimpses of what he was like last season.

 

As HH says, the attractive football will come, but the next time we see it, it'll be because of the evolution of the side rather than as a reaction to sitting a place above the dropzone.  I know people roll their eyes when they see words like 'evolution' or 'project' but I'm afraid that's what this is, in the cold light of day.  We are only 18 months into what Lambert is doing and we do still have the youngest Premier League squad bar none.  We have improved in every objective and calculable way over last season while, yes, becoming less entertaining in the short term.  We're on an upward curve in this league though.  We are getting better as a team.  We're doing it quite quickly too.  It's only 6 months since we kept our heads above water and now we're sitting midtable.  Any expectations above the jump we've already made at this stage of the game, to me are unrealistic and unfair.

 

Our aim is not midtable.  We are ALREADY midtable.  And we've done that in a season and a half of almost starting the first team from scratch.  People taking snapshots of the 'here and now' while ignoring where we've come from last season and while not acknowledging the climb we've made are not being reasonable IMO.  To suggest given what he has done here in the manner and time he has done it that Lambert is in some way a limited manager is remarkable to me.  I just can't take it seriously tbh

[Stevo985]

The difficulty i have with part of you post HH is that we only got out of trouble last season by playing some terrific football yet you now say we must wait another season before seeing it again. Nope that doesn't wash with me at all. If we got ourselves out of trouble last season by playing some good football then that should have continued and it quite obviously hasn't.

This seems to be a prime example of some of the contradictory thinking that's happening in this thread.

 

Last season, one of the criticisms levelled at Lambert was that it was all well and good putting in good performances and playing admirably, but it was results that mattered and we weren't getting them.

 

This season people (not necessarily the same people, but let's be honest, it probably is. And I'm not picking on you Morpheus, your post just highlighted it) are saying it's all well and good getting results but the performances and the football are crap.

 

Of course, we'd like both. Obviously. But expecting it now seems a bit like going from A to C without visiting B.

 

Don't get me wrong, some performances have been crap. Saturday's is an example. I'm not happy with performances like that. But I'm just saying that it just seems like the criticism of Lambert this season is exactly what a lot of people wanted (to an extent) last year.

Maybe we've sacrificed some flair for defensive solidity and getting points on the board to avoid a scare like last season?

 

Maybe we haven't and Lambert is clueless. But I'm inclined to lean towards the former.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Stevo985

[VillaCas]

I think everyone should just settle down. The priority was staying in the league and not being embroiled in another relegation battle. I know that isn't exactly ambitious but it was the first target. Right now I think we are looking good for achieving that. I think other targets, such as cup runs and more attractive football, should maybe be set for next season. This season has to be about not living as dangerously as we did last season.

 

Obviously this makes terrific sense

 

For me Lambert has done everything asked of him so far, taking over a shambles, completely overhauling the squad, balancing the budget, restoring some pride in the players and all the time whilst safeguarding our PL status.

 

Anyone who thinks we should be challenging for the top 6 or a major trophy at the moment needs a reality check. Our last 38 games would have been good enough for 9th last season - if we can maintain that level of return this season and push on a little in terms of our style of play I will be very happy

[AntrimBlack]

I don't know if what I said has been misunderstood. I will be happy enough to finish mid-table, and sitting mid-table at the moment I see as progress.

I have just a small worry that the way we are playing at present would not be good enough to keep us there.

[villaglint]

 

The difficulty i have with part of you post HH is that we only got out of trouble last season by playing some terrific football yet you now say we must wait another season before seeing it again. Nope that doesn't wash with me at all. If we got ourselves out of trouble last season by playing some good football then that should have continued and it quite obviously hasn't.

This seems to be a prime example of some of the contradictory thinking that's happening in this thread.

 

Last season, one of the criticisms levelled at Lambert was that it was all well and good putting in good performances and playing admirably, but it was results that mattered and we weren't getting them.

 

This season people (not necessarily the same people, but let's be honest, it probably is. And I'm not picking on you Morpheus, your post just highlighted it) are saying it's all well and good getting results but the performances and the football are crap.

 

Of course, we'd like both. Obviously. But expecting it now seems a bit like going from A to C without visiting B.

 

Don't get me wrong, some performances have been crap. Saturday's is an example. I'm not happy with performances like that. But I'm just saying that it just seems like the criticism of Lambert this season is exactly what a lot of people wanted (to an extent) last year.

Maybe we've sacrificed some flair for defensive solidity and getting points on the board to avoid a scare like last season?

 

Maybe we haven't and Lambert is clueless. But I'm inclined to lean towards the former.

 

 

Very much this!

 

Balance is so hard to achieve in the Prem when you cant afford to buy the top players in every position.

 

AM was forever trying but spectacularly failed to ever achieve a balance between attacking fluidity and defensive stability. He would regularly talk about how many strikers he had on the pitch but it didn't change the defensive mindset to grind out/hang on to any kind of result.

 

Under PL we are lurching from one extreme to the other but that is partly through the swings of form that come with youth and partly through pragmatism. At least we are showing we are capable of both!

Edited December 2, 2013 by villaglint

[Morpheus]

 

 

No i'm not a Lambert supporter and have explained why on numerous occasions and that seems to have irritated some on here to the extent that they have created a defence mechanism to cover not being able to answer questions by attacking other posters  - LOL

 

Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer. - LOL  Adam's father passed away last year which affected his performance and since he has got over that hasn't he been one of Stoke's better players - NO

 

So Daren Bent has been the key reason why Jol got the sack? If ever there has been a biased opinion then this is it.

 

- From today's Guardian Bent symptomatic of Jol's Fulham failings

There were, of course, no shortage of Things That Went Wrong in Martin Jol's Fulham team. Point at it. You can be fairly sure, in one way or another, it went wrong. From managerial drift to a listless squad, to yet another case of Adelusion, a condition whereby sufferers remain convinced, even with mounting evidence to the contrary, that the answer to the question "how are we going to score goals in the Premier League?" is "by signing a meandering, brilliantly talented Moroccan who's very good at dribbling with his head down". Most striking during Saturday's abject 3-0 defeat at West Ham was the spectacle of England's Darren Bent, scorer of 151 league goals, but just three in the last two years. Bent was not to blame for Fulham's defeat, but he has a symbolic kind of anti-value. At times against West Ham he broke into a jog, most often when finding himself standing significantly offside. For the rest of the match he didn't so much walk around as walk slightly slower than most people walk even when they're not playing a football match. Perhaps he was slowed by the size of his shorts which seem to have grown rather in the last couple of years. Perhaps he was simply waiting to explode into life given the right kind of service. Either way, as the first half began to drag, it was tempting to ponder the interesting philosophical question of whether the presence of Bent in Fulham's attack was having have more or less influence on the match than Andy Carroll's absence from West Ham's.

This is perhaps a little unfair on Modibo Maiga, who was energetic as the lone striker, while Bent, who really should be looking to earn himself an endorsement deal as the face of a popular brand of walking boot, strolled the periphery, starved of the right kind of pass, but also seeming content to remain so. What a waste all round. Bent is still only 29. At a time when possession of a pair of boots and a shirt with the right kind of number on it is enough to earn a call-up, he might have spent the last two years playing for England. Instead his performances at Fulham look like a salutary example of late-career Premier League congealment, not to mention an indictment of Jol's allegedly wondrous contacts book.

 

I only pinpoint Berbatov, Adam and Bent as an example of the judgement you displayed last season when you were touting them as the players that should be signed/played to take us to a brighter future - my point was of course, and as you were told at the time by very many posters, these players would have been distastous for us. This has clearly been proved this by their performances season

 

I use these examples to highlight that your premature judgement of Lambert is also massively flawed - you've smarted up since last season though (slightly) by refusing to name any possible replacements (Redknapp was your hilarious suggestion last season)

 

 

 

 

 

No i'm not a Lambert supporter and have explained why on numerous occasions and that seems to have irritated some on here to the extent that they have created a defence mechanism to cover not being able to answer questions by attacking other posters  - LOL

 

Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer. - LOL  Adam's father passed away last year which affected his performance and since he has got over that hasn't he been one of Stoke's better players - NO

 

So Daren Bent has been the key reason why Jol got the sack? If ever there has been a biased opinion then this is it.

 

- From today's Guardian Bent symptomatic of Jol's Fulham failings

There were, of course, no shortage of Things That Went Wrong in Martin Jol's Fulham team. Point at it. You can be fairly sure, in one way or another, it went wrong. From managerial drift to a listless squad, to yet another case of Adelusion, a condition whereby sufferers remain convinced, even with mounting evidence to the contrary, that the answer to the question "how are we going to score goals in the Premier League?" is "by signing a meandering, brilliantly talented Moroccan who's very good at dribbling with his head down". Most striking during Saturday's abject 3-0 defeat at West Ham was the spectacle of England's Darren Bent, scorer of 151 league goals, but just three in the last two years. Bent was not to blame for Fulham's defeat, but he has a symbolic kind of anti-value. At times against West Ham he broke into a jog, most often when finding himself standing significantly offside. For the rest of the match he didn't so much walk around as walk slightly slower than most people walk even when they're not playing a football match. Perhaps he was slowed by the size of his shorts which seem to have grown rather in the last couple of years. Perhaps he was simply waiting to explode into life given the right kind of service. Either way, as the first half began to drag, it was tempting to ponder the interesting philosophical question of whether the presence of Bent in Fulham's attack was having have more or less influence on the match than Andy Carroll's absence from West Ham's.

This is perhaps a little unfair on Modibo Maiga, who was energetic as the lone striker, while Bent, who really should be looking to earn himself an endorsement deal as the face of a popular brand of walking boot, strolled the periphery, starved of the right kind of pass, but also seeming content to remain so. What a waste all round. Bent is still only 29. At a time when possession of a pair of boots and a shirt with the right kind of number on it is enough to earn a call-up, he might have spent the last two years playing for England. Instead his performances at Fulham look like a salutary example of late-career Premier League congealment, not to mention an indictment of Jol's allegedly wondrous contacts book.

 

I only pinpoint Berbatov, Adam and Bent as an example of the judgement you displayed last season when you were touting them as the players that should be signed/played to take us to a brighter future - my point was of course, and as you were told at the time by very many posters, these players would have been distastous for us. This has clearly been proved this by their performances season

 

I use these examples to highlight that your premature judgement of Lambert is also massively flawed - you've smarted up since last season though (slightly) by refusing to name any possible replacements (Redknapp was your hilarious suggestion last season)

 

I see you have yet again done a very selective edit of my reply to your previous post and even in doing that you still haven't got anything right have you. Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer. Adam has been one of Stoke's better players this season and even though you've quoted someone else's opinion on Bent that doesn't take into consideration what the other 24 players were doing at Fulham to get Jol the sack.

 

What single player did you blame when Mcleish was sacked. Oh don't tell me? Was that Bent as well.

[Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring]

I don't know if what I said has been misunderstood. I will be happy enough to finish mid-table, and sitting mid-table at the moment I see as progress.

I have just a small worry that the way we are playing at present would not be good enough to keep us there.

 

But they way we've been playing has surely got to be considered in the light of the injuries we've had?

 

Gabby, Weimann and Benteke have all been out and it'll take a game or two for them, especially Gabby and Andi who have only just returned, to get back to 100% match speed.

 

It's frustrating I'd agree but it's a better sign, imo, to be playing poorly and picking up points than to be playing 'well' and getting beat.  We showed at the end of last season that we can play some good stuff and there's no reason why we can't get back there but there are always going to ups and downs. The overriding fact is we are improving despite our forward line being injured or out of form.

[Big_John_10]

Like I said previously no one can take complain about results and league position and we've clearly improved. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to want him sacked right now.

I can fully understand frustrations regarding performances though. Football is a game that runs on emotions and when watching awful rubbish like we did Saturday fans just aren't going to think about long term and project. But while frustrations may run high at the ground I think an overwhelming majority of fans are prepared to see where lambert can take us.

On the subject of benteke I think it would be a massive mistake to drop him.

[Morpheus]

 

I think everyone should just settle down. The priority was staying in the league and not being embroiled in another relegation battle. I know that isn't exactly ambitious but it was the first target. Right now I think we are looking good for achieving that. I think other targets, such as cup runs and more attractive football, should maybe be set for next season. This season has to be about not living as dangerously as we did last season.

 

Obviously this makes terrific sense

 

For me Lambert has done everything asked of him so far, taking over a shambles, completely overhauling the squad, balancing the budget, restoring some pride in the players and all the time whilst safeguarding our PL status.

 

Anyone who thinks we should be challenging for the top 6 or a major trophy at the moment needs a reality check. Our last 38 games would have been good enough for 9th last season - if we can maintain that level of return this season and push on a little in terms of our style of play I will be very happy

 

He didn't take over a shambles and his overhaul of the squad very nearly relegated us.

 

No-one, no-one thinks we should be challenging for top six or winning trophies yet either and we are at this moment in time lying tenth not at the end of this season but having not even reached the Christmas period yet and being tenth at this stage of the season is absolutely no guarantee that we're going to finish there as there is no guarantee that we're going to finish higher or lower than that. 

[Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring]

Like I said previously no one can take complain about results and league position and we've clearly improved. I also think it's a bit ridiculous to want him sacked right now.

I can fully understand frustrations regarding performances though. Football is a game that runs on emotions and when watching awful rubbish like we did Saturday fans just aren't going to think about long term and project. But while frustrations may run high at the ground I think an overwhelming majority of fans are prepared to see where lambert can take us.

On the subject of benteke I think it would be a massive mistake to drop him.

 

I don't think he will drop him, yet.   I think him being subbed on Saturday was just a little nudge to Benteke to say he's not untouchable.

 

I think it's a confidence thing. If Bentekes attitude was wrong Lambert would have picked up on it during training and I don't think he'd have hesitated to drop him then. Once he gets that first goal he'll be flying again.