U.S. Politics

[maqroll]

I'll be amazed if he's still president come summer. One week in, and he's alienated 99% of the world, some of whom have power too. The GOP will turn on him eventually.

[Genie]

10 minutes ago, Genie said:

Over 2/3 of a million now, probably over a million by the morning.

It ain't gonna bother Trump much but it gives our MP's something to think about.

Seems to be gathering pace, gone up about 15,000 since I posted that ^^ (10 minutes passed).

Edited January 29, 2017 by Genie

[PompeyVillan]

Surely only his most ardent supporters would condone his recent actions?

I'm interested in how this is perceived in the US. I am hoping many people are already regretting their votes. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by PompeyVillan

[maqroll]

9 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Surely only his most ardent supporters would condone his recent actions?

I'm interested in how this is perceived in the US. I am hoping many people are already regretting their votes. 

Outrage from people who aren't satanic hypocrites

[Genie]

12 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Outrage from people who aren't satanic hypocrites

I guess like Brexit, 90% of the people who ticked his box in the election are keeping very quiet... am I right?

[snowychap]

Grauniad:

Quote

Britons holding dual citizenship with any of the seven Muslim-majority countries listed as suspended by the United States will still be allowed to enter the US, says the Foreign Office.

A statement from the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson says that after conversations with the US government, the department can confirm the following (direct from its statement):

• The presidential executive order only applies to individuals travelling from one of the seven named countries.
• If you are travelling to the US from anywhere other than one of those countries (for instance, the UK) the executive order does not apply to you and you will experience no extra checks regardless of your nationality or your place of birth.
• If you are a UK national who happens to be travelling from one of those countries to the US, then the order does not apply to you – even if you were born in one of those countries.
• If you are a dual citizen of one of those countries travelling to the US from OUTSIDE those countries then the order does not apply to you.

The only dual nationals who might have extra checks are those coming from one of the seven countries themselves – for example a UK-Libya dual national coming from Libya to the US.

That would suggest that they've either given in on this (for British Citizens, at least) or that they're just making it up as they go along (as per the green card comments from Priebus versus yesterday's directives).

Edited January 29, 2017 by snowychap

[Davkaus]

 

If you are travelling to the US from anywhere other than one of those countries (for instance, the UK) the executive order does not apply to you and you will experience no extra checks regardless of your nationality or your place of birth.

I mean, I think we already knew that this ban was **** stupid, but jesus **** christ.

I'm pretty sure that the bad muslim terrorists won't think of flying in via Canada.

[Genie]

What a mess, the USA is a global joke inside a week.

[Genie]

I'm predicting the US tourism industry is going to take a massive hit this year. Just not worth the hassle is it.

[snowychap]

McCain and Graham said today that, " It is clear from the confusion at our airports across the nation that President Trump’s executive order was not properly vetted."

Perhaps we need extreme vetting of Executive Orders first and foremost.

 

[Keyblade]

27 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Grauniad:

That would suggest that they've either given in on this (for British Citizens, at least) or that they're just making it up as they go along (as per the green card comments from Priebus versus yesterday's directives).

I mean bullet 2 is simply not true as many people have already been detained traveling from Canada for example.

[Chindie]

Thus would tie up with the idea that these orders aren't being considered by active with legal or legislative expertise.

It's terrifying. The hope was Trump would be a salesman and the advisors and cabinet would ground him. Instead he's empowered the likes of Bannon and not been reined in at all.

I wouldn't want to be an American at the moment, let alone one that wasn't white Christian straight healthy and well of.

[Ingram85]

Do we think this will go as far as civil war? 

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I mean bullet 2 is simply not true as many people have already been detained traveling from Canada for example.

British (dual) citizens?

It may just be that this is the policy from the end of the chat with Boris onwards.

[StefanAVFC]

Mr Projection is back again.

[LondonLax]

Judging from how this has played out it looks very much like a 'shoot from the hip' executive order and the Presidential office has not bothered to consider all the implications i.e. bans for Green Card holders. 

They are now having to clarify and make up amendments on the fly. 

I wonder if Trump is bothered by the chaos this approach has caused or if he feels he's 'getting things done' and the details will sort themselves out later. 

Either way it does not bode well for future decision making from the supposed most important person in the world. 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I guess like Brexit, 90% of the people who ticked his box in the election are keeping very quiet... am I right?

Yes, if they live in a blue area. In Red areas, it's party time. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Grauniad:

That would suggest that they've either given in on this (for British Citizens, at least) or that they're just making it up as they go along (as per the green card comments from Priebus versus yesterday's directives).

Hi snowy, this is a link which details the process and gives a lot of criticism of the order (very interesting reading):

https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-trumps-horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

It's a bit long for summarising, but just on the process, he reports:

'The malevolence of President Trump’s Executive Order on visas and refugees is mitigated chiefly—and perhaps only—by the astonishing incompetence of its drafting and construction.

NBC is reporting that the document was not reviewed by DHS, the Justice Department, the State Department, or the Department of Defense, and that National Security Council lawyers were prevented from evaluating it. Moreover, the New York Times writes that Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services, the agencies tasked with carrying out the policy, were only given a briefing call while Trump was actually signing the order itself. Yesterday, the Department of Justice gave a “no comment” when asked whether the Office of Legal Counsel had reviewed Trump’s executive orders—including the order at hand. (OLC normally reviews every executive order.)

This order reads to me, frankly, as though it was not reviewed by competent counsel at all.'

Much more at the link. 

[snowychap]

Apparently Boris's call wasn't with the State Department but with Bannan.

[StefanAVFC]

re: Bannon, seriously why the **** is the ex-CEO of a conspiracy touting far-right mouthpiece site now the go-to guy on the National Security Council?

Like, how the **** did that happen and why is it fine?