Midfielder Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 It was possible, but I didn't think it would happen... Shocked. Worried a bit for the states too really sorry to do this, but it's US politics related. Does anyone on here know their economics? If the dollar plunges, is the pound going to weaken? Weeks away from a new mortgage, I'm scared for me and our economy too. I don't like uncertainty and things are very uncertain now, although, one thing that is certain is, the media will never have a slow news day for the next four years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I mean, banning people of a particular religion from entering the country clearly would be an escalation, but it's worth saying that Trump has fudged on this policy when questioned in recent times. His more recent formulation was something like 'extreme vetting' rather than an outright ban, though (of course) he didn't have any actual details for what that might involve. He toned it down to get votes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: His more recent formulation was something like 'extreme vetting' rather than an outright ban, though (of course) he didn't have any actual details for what that might involve. I imagine plans to close Guantanamo Bay will be quietly shelved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2016 Welcome to a post fact Democracy where a deliberately confused, misinformed, ignorant electorate votes for whoever shouts the simplest message loudest, even when they know it's not true. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, av1 said: I imagine plans to close Guantanamo Bay will be quietly shelved. Obama already did that (with repub help I know). Be interesting to see what the lame duck session tries to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: He toned it down to get votes... Probably. However, we shall see. I think people need to assume that he's going to fail to deliver on most all of his promises. Obama claimed that electing him would lower the level of the seas in itself. Grandiose claims that can't be followed through with are a part of the American presidential tradition. Of course, I appreciate it's easy for me to say this as a white British person, if I were a Mexican American or a Muslim I would probably be a good deal more panicked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) On the other hand, to provide some balance to my own opinion, maybe I'm wrong on this one. In the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte was elected in a landslide promising to fill Manila harbour with the bodies of people involved in the drugs trade. He openly promised to launch a campaign of extra-judicial murders on the street, and he has followed through to the word. Nobody could accuse him of failing to keep a manifesto commitment. Of course, my assumption is that the checks and balances in the American system are sufficiently strong to resist the most tyrannical fascist excesses. But there's a strong argument, counter to my argument above, that people who spend so much effort trying to portray an image of themselves as both a moron and a proto-fascist should be taken at their word. 'Interesting times', indeed. Edited November 9, 2016 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: He toned it down to get votes... That's just the point though isn't it, he is a populist. He doesn't actually believe in anything from a political point of view, he is open to saying or doing anything. The guy identified as a Democrat but decided to run as a Republican because it was an easier path. The whole 'ban Muslims' talk was just that, talk to win in the rabid Republican primaries and he changed his tune as soon as he needed to appeal to a wider crowd. What he will actually do in power we really have no idea. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Unbelievable, America what the hell have you done to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 At least it's not Ted Cruz, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shomin Geki Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Awol said: It is a fact of society, the attempt to hide it through manipulation of language or wish it out of existence has just met the concrete wall of reality. People across the west are seeing their incomes fall, inequality sky rocket while a narrow elite patronise the crap out of them. Of course Trump isn't the answer but he was the only change candidate. The funny thing will be watching said elite perform mental gymnastics to avoid drawing the correct conclusions from Trump's election. This. Unfortunately, this. Idealists who don't pass through realism end up mere fantasists. Virtually everything Awol and Villakram have said tonight is completely correct. Unpleasant to read, but entirely correct. These words have to be the starting point for a real, progressive politics. We have avoided reality and a recognition of the lives of most ordinary people for far too long. Unable to listen to an unpalatable truth we have indulged, individually and en masse, in fantasy and distraction. If we truly care we can no longer afford this luxury. It isn't always someone else's fault. We need to have a long, hard look at everything. Especially ourselves and our actions and words. They don't do what we pretend they do. To a richer, more responsible politics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 One thing to come out of tonight that I'm not sad at, is we can bury once and for all the notion that centrist, Blue Dog Democrats are 'better' because they're more 'electable'. If I were to judge one single cliche to have had a worse 2016 than all others, it would be 'elections are won in the centre'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2016 28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Probably. However, we shall see. I think people need to assume that he's going to fail to deliver on most all of his promises. Obama claimed that electing him would lower the level of the seas in itself. Grandiose claims that can't be followed through with are a part of the American presidential tradition. Of course, I appreciate it's easy for me to say this as a white British person, if I were a Mexican American or a Muslim I would probably be a good deal more panicked. Totally different premise. Obama couldn't make the changes he undoubtedly wanted to make because he couldn't get them through, Trump won't have the same issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 What's the chance of an epic comeback here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks @Shomin Geki much more eloquent than anything I've tried to convey, but I think that is something that pretty much all of us can agree on. wow, Clinton refusing to concede and face the cameras... quelle surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, sexbelowsound said: What's the chance of an epic comeback here? Basically none. Clinton would need to win Alaska or Arizona. She won't win either. 4 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Totally different premise. Obama couldn't make the changes he undoubtedly wanted to make because he couldn't get them through, Trump won't have the same issue. In the first two years under Obama, Democrats had a supermajority in the Senate and a majority in the House. Unified government control that they won't have again for a long, long time, and they still didn't get meaningful climate change legislation passed. I'm not saying Obama didn't want to make those changes, I'm saying that there is a lot of inertia in the system. That inertia will affect Trump too, what remains to be seen is how much it affects him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: What's the chance of an epic comeback here? Well the Clinton HQ have shut up shop and gone home. I think that's a reasonable indicator of their expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wonder how many voted in between the FBI opening and closing the investigation last week? That could have been extremely costly but still Clinton was an extremely flawed candidate. The problem was both of them getting elected in the primaries, not this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: What's the chance of an epic comeback here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said: I wonder how many voted in between the FBI opening and closing the investigation last week? That could have been extremely costly but still Clinton was an extremely flawed candidate. The problem was both of them getting elected in the primaries, not this. I agree with this. The fact that someone with the views of Trump has been allowed to get this far shows just how weak of a candidate she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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