dukes Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 How do you know what they earn each week? We can't be certain unless you have copies of their pay slips. It's a best guess, i don't have access to their payslips. As AndyBM has said, even if you halve it it's a lot of money on players that for the most part aren't contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Given 60K Warnock 40K Hutton 35k Richard Dunne 50K Stephen Ireland 60K Charles N'Zogbia 60K Jean II Makoun 45K Bent 60K Agbonlahor 55K thats a ridiculous amount of money, what a waste, the current situation were in nobody deserves to earn that at this club Given - thats alot for a back up/cup keeper Makoun - we should refuse to pay any wages until he gets back here, well and truely mugged us off Bent - maybe if he was one of the league top scorer every season Gabby - he was free, so makes up for it What would you do then ? Personally I hope we keep bent - his goals could keep us up this season. Given - well even if we got rid - we would still a back up keeper - and Guzan probably on not a lot evens that up. Gabby - not the player he was - but a good pro, considering our youthful squad A few of the others are out on loan. Ireland\Nzog should never have been signed - However no manager will get it right all the time. Pretty sure in 12 mths time - there will be another list of high earners not doing much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Given 60K Warnock 40K Hutton 35k Richard Dunne 50K Stephen Ireland 70K Charles N'Zogbia 60K Jean II Makoun 35K Bent 90K Agbonlahor 60K Fixed some that were slightly out. £24m a year. Ridiculous. So far this season these players have cost us circa £10m and have made a combined 45 Premier League appearances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Bent like it or not seems not to be in Lambert's plans, he wasn't being picked before his injury, and i suspect had this been a league game he would not have played today. He's as good as gone once a decent offer comes in. Gabby / Ireland have been in and around the first team you're right, has either really justified their place ? Hutton / Warnock while no worse than what we have been playing at left back and right back are not really any better either, so even with them back in the fold do you really expect to see them play ? Dunne has been pretty much shit since his first season with us, and since his contract is up at the end of the season i don't expect even when fit he'll play for us. Like it or not, the players above have hardly contributed anything to our cause this season, some of those players haven't been given a chance by this manager, others have been given a chance but not taken it, but it's a fact that these senior players have done nothing to help us (with the possible exception of Bent, who i'd personally like to see stay). In any case you missed my point. The point is that we already have Experienced Premier League players in our squad, but they are the ones contributing least, and also the smae players that are holding us back from making some of the signings that certain posters have stated we should be signing (such as Lescott). In my opinion, if we didn't have Warnock, and Hutton on the books for example the Lescott signing would make an awful lot more sense. With respect your initial post said these players were costing £27m a year and contributing nothing. I disagree with those figures - As our results show, when all of those players are not available our results nosedived. Bents goal today go us through to the next round. We need a back up keeper. Hutton\Makoun\Warnock - have been out on loan - so I would hope that reduced the wage bill. I would say say the actual figure wasted is around 50% of what you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I know this may sound very stupid but come Feb 1st I'd be pretty happy with this -------------Guzan -------Vlaar------Chester/An experienced Cb ------------Leerdam -----Westwood------Stephens/Bannan Weimann----------------Coutinho --------------Benteke Subs Given/another keeper with Siegrist getting games on loan Clark Lichaj Herd Ireland (or Ireland's replacement) Agbonlahor Bent (or Bent's replacement) Id be pretty with that. - Really want the quality CB + Vlaar fit. If we keep Bent, a strikeforce of Bentekke, Weiman, Bent ....well its been worse ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyp_avfc Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Id be pretty with that. - Really want the quality CB + Vlaar fit. If we keep Bent, a strikeforce of Bentekke, Weiman, Bent ....well its been worse ! Thing is though I don't think Bent or Benteke would play the 2nd striker alongside Weimann role very well.... and Coutinho (should we even get him which is a totally different debate) would be a brilliant little player in that role with the dribbling, passing and vision. (does that sound like what Ireland SHOULD be like?.) I wouldn't mind us bringing in someone like Douglas to play alongside Vlaar and get Chester in either now or in the summer.... (might be asking for too much there) If we had then 5 Cbs when Dunne Leaves that will set us up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Ok, let's add another dimension :- Given 60K Contract runs until summer 2016 Warnock 40K Contract runs until summer 2013 Hutton 35k Contract runs until summer 2015 Richard Dunne 50K contract runs until summer 2013 Stephen Ireland 60K contract runs until summer 2014 Charles N'Zogbia 60K contract runs until summer 2016 Jean II Makoun 45K contract runs until summer 2014 Bent 60K contract runs until 2015 Agbonlahor 55K contract runs until 2015. So lets assume we can sell Bent, and then we lose Warnock and Dunne through expiration (of contract not life). it still leaves us carrying the rest for upto 3 years. There is no chance that players like Given will leave when he is effectively owed £9M by us, and the others are mostly in the same situation. Gabby is probably the worst example, he was given a 5 year contract under MON, and while i understand that his pace has often caused problems, he's never really utilised it properly, and he's certainly not scored sufficient goals for a striker. We're certainly left with a player who won't admit he's not a striker, and seems unhappy to play on the wing, which seems to leave him with no long term position in our team, and yet he has 2 more years earning a very high wage, that will most liekly stop him moving elsewhere. This highlights the problem for me, and is why i can see the sense in signing the younger hungrier players, i just hope that it's enough, and i look forward to the day when we're free of these high earning wasters (not that it's their fault they earn the money they do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thing is though I don't think Bent or Benteke would play the 2nd striker alongside Weimann role very well.... and Coutinho (should we even get him which is a totally different debate) would be a brilliant little player in that role with the dribbling, passing and vision. (does that sound like what Ireland SHOULD be like?.) I wouldn't mind us bringing in someone like Douglas to play alongside Vlaar and get Chester in either now or in the summer.... (might be asking for too much there) If we had then 5 Cbs when Dunne Leaves that will set us up... Yeah - I would like Douglass What I meant about the forwards in that Weiman\Bent rotate - or if one dips in form gets injured we have that cover. Not sure bowery can cover for Bentekke at the moment. - Would love to see him grab a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 With respect your initial post said these players were costing £27m a year and contributing nothing. I disagree with those figures - As our results show, when all of those players are not available our results nosedived. Bents goal today go us through to the next round. We need a back up keeper. Hutton\Makoun\Warnock - have been out on loan - so I would hope that reduced the wage bill. I would say say the actual figure wasted is around 50% of what you suggest. It's all relative though, when Bent is earning 70k a week and Benteke is getting 20k a week it makes you scratch your head. Same goes for Guzan playing week in week out while Shay sits on the bench and collects 50/60k a week. Same goes for Westwood who's probably on 10/15k a week compared to Ireland who's on 70k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 looks like lescott is not intrested http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11677/8382430/Joleon-Lescott-insists-he-will-not-be-leaving-Manchester-City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) With respect your initial post said these players were costing £27m a year and contributing nothing. I disagree with those figures - As our results show, when all of those players are not available our results nosedived. Bents goal today go us through to the next round. We need a back up keeper. Hutton\Makoun\Warnock - have been out on loan - so I would hope that reduced the wage bill. I would say say the actual figure wasted is around 50% of what you suggest. You think Warnock's wages were covered by Bolton ? or Hutton's by Nottingham Forest ? You think Rennes can afford Makoun's wages ? We're saddled with these players and their wages until their contracts expire. Maybe my figures are slightly off, i have never professed that they were gospel, it was meant as an indication as to why we can't keep wasting money on 30 something players looking for one last big payday, even in a time when maybe our team is crying out for some experience. Bury you head in the sand if you like, argue of £5M per year, but the point remains the same we can't sustain the payments we have to make to these players that contribute so little (regardless of the reason), and at the same time bring in more equally high earners. Edited January 5, 2013 by dukes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 gabby reminds me a little of i think it was tony daley, could run and run but had nothing at the end of it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNY_DYER Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 one of, there is still a bit there Agreed mate but he was the ringleader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Ok, let's add another dimension :- Given 60K Contract runs until summer 2016 Warnock 40K Contract runs until summer 2013 Hutton 35k Contract runs until summer 2015 Richard Dunne 50K contract runs until summer 2013 Stephen Ireland 60K contract runs until summer 2014 Charles N'Zogbia 60K contract runs until summer 2016 Jean II Makoun 45K contract runs until summer 2014 Bent 60K contract runs until 2015 Agbonlahor 55K contract runs until 2015. So lets assume we can sell Bent, and then we lose Warnock and Dunne through expiration (of contract not life). it still leaves us carrying the rest for upto 3 years. There is no chance that players like Given will leave when he is effectively owed £9M by us, and the others are mostly in the same situation. Gabby is probably the worst example, he was given a 5 year contract under MON, and while i understand that his pace has often caused problems, he's never really utilised it properly, and he's certainly not scored sufficient goals for a striker. We're certainly left with a player who won't admit he's not a striker, and seems unhappy to play on the wing, which seems to leave him with no long term position in our team, and yet he has 2 more years earning a very high wage, that will most liekly stop him moving elsewhere. This highlights the problem for me, and is why i can see the sense in signing the younger hungrier players, i just hope that it's enough, and i look forward to the day when we're free of these high earning wasters (not that it's their fault they earn the money they do). Personally its sink or swim - if we have a team full of players earning 50% of the going rate in the prem. I fear for us. For example if we offered Weiman a contract extension on 25k a week - do you think he might not ask his agent to see if he could get better ? Ridding the club of high earners isn't the cure for all ills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 absolutely. There were loads saying we would lose, others saying it didn't matter and yet now , well it was only a lower table championship team the result isn't that good! Amazing for me and as I said in the match thread, every silver lining has a cloud it seems As I've always said, many on here will amplify a bad result and play down a good result. I do wonder how some would cope if we won the League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyp_avfc Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Yeah - I would like Douglass What I meant about the forwards in that Weiman\Bent rotate - or if one dips in form gets injured we have that cover. Not sure bowery can cover for Bentekke at the moment. - Would love to see him grab a goal. Indeed anyone of Douglas, Viegever(Az Cb), would of liked Jan Kirchoff (Now signed for Bayern) But Cb is a position I think we will strengthen this Jan! With the forwards we may get one.... it depends how Lambert see's Bowery I think, if he per se (I saw a reply earlier with me being corrected ) Grabs a goal in the Bradford game and then kicks on and shows Lambert he can be more than a sub then I would maybe think Lambert would not look at a striker until the summer.... But I think an Attacking Mid who can play the striker role... an Aubameyang for instance would suit us if Lambert wanted a striker. For the love of McGrath I hope we get Coutinho (if it's even true we are going after him) Edited January 5, 2013 by Mattyp_avfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Personally its sink or swim - if we have a team full of players earning 50% of the going rate in the prem. I fear for us. For example if we offered Weiman a contract extension on 25k a week - do you think he might not ask his agent to see if he could get better ? Ridding the club of high earners isn't the cure for all ills I would expect for a player of Weimann's stature £25K would be the most he could expect. I agree ridding the club of it's high earners isn't the answer, and i have never said it is. Once the current batch of high earning failures are removed though it does mean that we will be able to supplement our hopefully young and relatively successful squad with some bigger stars but from the same mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) looks like lescott is not intrested http://www1.skysport...Manchester-City He's hardly played this season! How can he not be interested in playing football - isn't it what they're supposed to love doing? - or is it all about the money?!! Like I said before .......the proof of the pudding will be if he decides to come back & help out the club he supports. Now compare that to Joe Cole who was in a similar situation, if admittedly perhaps not on such high wages as Lescott - he's gone back to the club where he learnt his trade. I saw a snippet of his PC with Big Sam & a journo asked him if he was happy to be back and his reasons for leaving Liverpool and presumably taking a paycut I would think. He just paused and said............"I just wanna play football" Edited January 5, 2013 by JulieB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 He's hardly played this season! How can he not be interested in playing football - isn't it what they're supposed to love doing? - or is it all about the money?!! Now compare that to Joe Cole who was in a similar situation, if admittedly perhaps not on such high wages as Lescott - he's gone back to the club where he learnt his trade. I saw a snippet of his PC with Big Sam & a journo asked him if he was happy to be back and his reasons for leaving Liverpool and presumably taking a paycut I would think. He just paused and said............"I just wanna play football" Not trying to completely knock your argument, but I believe Cole took a hefty payoff from Liverpool to even make the move happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 5, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2013 He's hardly played this season! How can he not be interested in playing football - isn't it what they're supposed to love doing? - or is it all about the money?!! 16 appearances at the half way point of the season isn't hardly playing in my book. As for what he loves doing I'd imagine winning matches and trophies is high on the list and he will do more of that there and yes earn more money. Why the hell would he want to leave? Now compare that to Joe Cole who was in a similar situation, if admittedly perhaps not on such high wages as Lescott - he's gone back to the club where he learnt his trade. I saw a snippet of his PC with Big Sam & a journo asked him if he was happy to be back and his reasons for leaving Liverpool and presumably taking a paycut I would think. He just paused and said............"I just wanna play football" Joe Cole? Yeah right. He went to Liverpool on a Bosman for £80k a week, he has now gone back to WHU with them picking up £30k of his wages and Liverpool paying the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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