caw2510 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Plus 2 season ago we did well for a few games without him until we got **** by Chelsea IIRC we did well for about 5 games where we went on a little unbeaten run and got a couple of wins but that was it. Every game since then where he's been absent we've lost almost every time. He missed 11 league games through injury in his first season here and 6 last season. Results without him: 12/13 Played 11 W2 D2 L7 Scored 8 Conceded 22 Clean Sheets 2 13/14 Played 6 W0 D1 L5 Scored 2 Conceded 11 Clean Sheets 0 Yeah... fair point but as long as he is replaced by somebody better then clark herd and baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 but as long as he is replaced by somebody better then clark herd and baker Those three aren't the benchmark for his replacement unless we're happy with going backwards. If Okore can't come back from a season out injured and fill the Vlaar sized hole that would be left or if we can't buy someone as good as him who will hit the ground running then we'll be doing well to match the last two (very poor) seasons defensively. There isn't a lot of room for backwards movement between what we've been doing and relegation unfortunately so selling him would have to be for a massive fee IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Bertrand can be sold for 10m, captain Vlaar is worth the double. They won't be paying anything like that which is exactly why they didn't make it permanent in the first place. Going by Koeman's comments, he really is just being used as a stop-gap while they groom Matt Targett, another off the production line, to become first-choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caw2510 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 but as long as he is replaced by somebody better then clark herd and baker Those three aren't the benchmark for his replacement unless we're happy with going backwards. If Okore can't come back from a season out injured and fill the Vlaar sized hole that would be left or if we can't buy someone as good as him who will hit the ground running then we'll be doing well to match the last two (very poor) seasons defensively. There isn't a lot of room for backwards movement between what we've been doing and relegation unfortunately so selling him would have to be for a massive fee IMHO. anything over 12mill for somebody with one year left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A total deal being worth £10m is not the same as selling him for £10m. They could be paying a loan fee, plus with young players I imagine there'd be lots of success-based add ons. £10m for Vlaar would be an incredible deal in the circumstances. It's a hard decision for Vlaar. On the one hand, he could stay an extra year, then more of the money might end up in his pocket as he leaves on a free. On the other, his stock is probably the highest it will ever be right now, so does he maximise that and leave now? Almost all sales have ad-ons, so transfers of players rarely reaches prices branded around, even Bent for £24m. But in the unlikely event Southamton win the PL, CL, WC,etc, they wont pay £10m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 8 mill laughable if true 29 year old centre back with a poor injury record and one year left on his deal. If we got £8m we'll have done well. So what proven international class prem defender who also happens to be our captain are we going to replace him with for 8 mill That is peanuts today in terms of over inflated transfer fee's I do not think it's a good idea for us to sell our best defender who we do not need to sell in the first place to a fellow relegation rival who are looking likely to have recouped over 100 mill in transfer funds for a mere 8 million pounds Take them to the cleaners ffs i do not see Vlaar as the type who will go on strike or hand in a transfer request to force a move demand top dollar its no secret they have a shit load of cash at the minute I'd rather let him go on a free next season than sell him for that price he is the difference between us staying up and going down and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than relegation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Bertrand can be sold for 10m, captain Vlaar is worth the double. They won't be paying anything like that which is exactly why they didn't make it permanent in the first place. Going by Koeman's comments, he really is just being used as a stop-gap while they groom Matt Targett, another off the production line, to become first-choice. That is not the point. If the World Cup is anything to go by, Lukaku £28m, played like a kid, Bertrand £10m, didn't play, Lovren, nothing spectacular, £20m, Vlaar best CD at the World Cup, less than £10m?? How much is Benteke worth if we compare to Lukaku? £50m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Bertrand can be sold for 10m, captain Vlaar is worth the double. They won't be paying anything like that which is exactly why they didn't make it permanent in the first place. Going by Koeman's comments, he really is just being used as a stop-gap while they groom Matt Targett, another off the production line, to become first-choice. That is not the point. If the World Cup is anything to go by, Lukaku £28m, played like a kid, Bertrand £10m, didn't play, Lovren, nothing spectacular, £20m, Vlaar best CD at the World Cup, less than £10m?? How much is Benteke worth if we compare to Lukaku? £50m? It's absolutely not just about the World Cup - don't get suckered in by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Bertrand can be sold for 10m, captain Vlaar is worth the double. They won't be paying anything like that which is exactly why they didn't make it permanent in the first place. Going by Koeman's comments, he really is just being used as a stop-gap while they groom Matt Targett, another off the production line, to become first-choice. That is not the point. If the World Cup is anything to go by, Lukaku £28m, played like a kid, Bertrand £10m, didn't play, Lovren, nothing spectacular, £20m, Vlaar best CD at the World Cup, less than £10m?? How much is Benteke worth if we compare to Lukaku? £50m? It's absolutely not just about the World Cup - don't get suckered in by that. I know. But Vlaar is a much better defender than Lovren and Bertrand. Bertrand is a Chelsea cast off. The prices are so inflated that it is unreal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Based on league performances he isn't better than Lovren though so I'm guessing that you are just going by World Cup performance. Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Based on league performances he isn't better than Lovren though so I'm guessing that you are just going by World Cup performance. Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract. That's your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Based on league performances he isn't better than Lovren though so I'm guessing that you are just going by World Cup performance. Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract.That's your opinion. Indeed and your opinion that he was "nothing spectacular" is a minority one when he is widely recognised as being one of Southampton's best players last season. Edited July 31, 2014 by Isa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract. He also handed in a formal written transfer request don't forget If Vlaar does that it's a completely different scenario but accepting <£10m for him now is effectively pulling our own pants down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Vlaar goes he goes, he goes and anyway we have a ready made Swiss international replacement waiting in the wings. Okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caw2510 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Bertrand can be sold for 10m, captain Vlaar is worth the double. They won't be paying anything like that which is exactly why they didn't make it permanent in the first place. Going by Koeman's comments, he really is just being used as a stop-gap while they groom Matt Targett, another off the production line, to become first-choice. That is not the point. If the World Cup is anything to go by, Lukaku £28m, played like a kid, Bertrand £10m, didn't play, Lovren, nothing spectacular, £20m, Vlaar best CD at the World Cup, less than £10m?? How much is Benteke worth if we compare to Lukaku? £50m? It's absolutely not just about the World Cup - don't get suckered in by that. unfortunately when its the transfer window following a world cup if you have a world cup your price goes through the roof have a bad one and nobody wants you if he goes we use the money and get a good experienced player to partner okore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract. He also handed in a formal written transfer request don't forget If Vlaar does that it's a completely different scenario but accepting <£10m for him now is effectively pulling our own pants down. But a transfer-request pushes the fee down if anything. The point I was trying to make was that if Vlaar were 24 and had a few years remaining on his deal then we'd have a platform to push for a similar fee. He doesn't though and thus the Lovren transfer shouldn't be pushed as some sort of benchmark. Also, as I keep saying, there won't be any firm stance over the asking price unless we are prepared to accept the possibility of losing him for nothing next season and I have severe doubts that Lerner would allow for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Also Lovren is five years younger and didn't have a year left on his contract. He also handed in a formal written transfer request don't forget If Vlaar does that it's a completely different scenario but accepting <£10m for him now is effectively pulling our own pants down. But a transfer-request pushes the fee down if anything. The point I was trying to make was that if Vlaar were 24 and had a few years remaining on his deal then we'd have a platform to push for a similar fee. He doesn't though and thus the Lovren transfer shouldn't be pushed as some sort of benchmark. Also, as I keep saying, there won't be any firm stance over the asking price unless we are prepared to accept the possibility of losing him for nothing next season and I have severe doubts that Lerner would allow for that. Well obviously the TR pushes the fee down, it pushed the Lovren fee DOWN TO £20m. The point is that without the TR Lovren would have been WAY MORE THAN TWENTY MILLION **** POUNDS. Lovren is fine to use as a benchmark if all variables are taken in to consideration. He's 4 years younger (He's 25) with a longer contract BUT crucially he handed in a transfer request. He desperately wanted to leave and made that very clear in the media. If Vlaar did that then we could start thinking about selling but if after his discussions he's happy to stay we would be absolutely **** mental to sell him for 7 figures. Edited July 31, 2014 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Reading between the lines Vlaar is off, if we can get £5m+ then we have done well tbh. I like Okores, so the most important thing is to get someone to complement him.Lescott would have been ideal. Whats the Celtic CH, Ambrose like, if not maybe the Coloumbian CH who plays for Inter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can't believe some of you want him gone for so little to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't, but the way he was talking didn't sound like someone who was going to stay tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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