Follyfoot Posted January 19 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19 32 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Under Little we finished 4th, then 5th but were in a real slump in 97-98. Collymore didn't work out and we were aboit 14th or 15th come February 1998 when Little resigned. Gregory was doing well after going out on his own in November 1996. Gregory was great when he first came in taking us to 7th in 1997-98 and he was great in 1998-99 with us top at Christmasbeforefalling back to 6th. He got more defensive in 99-00 and that culminated in a very poor performance in the FA Cup final in May 2000 Chelsea were there for the taking that day. In hindsight that may have been the time for him to move on as things really went stale for the following season when we seemed to become a very rigid side. Quite simply, he should not brought Dublin back for the semi or in the final, the team, the beat. Leeds would’ve won the cup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted January 19 Popular Post Share Posted January 19 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Under Little we finished 4th, then 5th but were in a real slump in 97-98. Collymore didn't work out and we were aboit 14th or 15th come February 1998 when Little resigned. Gregory was doing well after going out on his own in November 1996. Gregory was great when he first came in taking us to 7th in 1997-98 and he was great in 1998-99 with us top at Christmasbeforefalling back to 6th. He got more defensive in 99-00 and that culminated in a very poor performance in the FA Cup final in May 2000 Chelsea were there for the taking that day. In hindsight that may have been the time for him to move on as things really went stale for the following season when we seemed to become a very rigid side. Ellis didn’t allow him to take the club where he wanted it to be… can be boiled down or completely simplified to that. And… it hurt him deeply too… he still speaks of it today… partly why he walked away… I really admired JG because his love and passion for Aston Villa was obvious and deep, and he wasn’t afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve… he was so invested. He was honest and wasn’t afraid to say it like it was (maybe not always wise, but certainly refreshing). Always bigged up and praised the club and spoke how “special” it is… and that we should never feel inferior to anyone… He did an amazing job picking us up after BL’s departure and arriving from relative obscurity… surprised so many… Kept us at the top of the league for a while too… He built good sides that played some good stuff… some proper players… always felt we just needed that extra push and extra backing to establish ourselves in that “upper echelon” of the league but… things didn’t work out that way sadly… Edited January 19 by Jas10 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterDad Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Under Little we finished 4th, then 5th but were in a real slump in 97-98. Collymore didn't work out and we were aboit 14th or 15th come February 1998 when Little resigned. Gregory was doing well after going out on his own in November 1996. Gregory was great when he first came in taking us to 7th in 1997-98 and he was great in 1998-99 with us top at Christmasbeforefalling back to 6th. He got more defensive in 99-00 and that culminated in a very poor performance in the FA Cup final in May 2000 Chelsea were there for the taking that day. In hindsight that may have been the time for him to move on as things really went stale for the following season when we seemed to become a very rigid side. This is a very good assessment of his tenure although I do believe you are being very kind to him. I have nothing against JG and believe he is a villan - just didn’t like his playing style 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 hours ago, ChesterDad said: I thought he was awful TRO - completely bored me to tears, his first thought was do not lose. I guess footie is all about opinions Alex’s injury was dreadful - truly great player, never shirked a challenge and could see a pass. I can’t recall which Sandwell towner did this, was it Cantello or that carthorse Brown? His first two seasons were full of wildly ridiculous entertaining matches, the 2-0 comeback v Arsenal and they were loads of high scoring games in that period. Beating Leeds 3-2 at VP in the FA cup season remains in my all time top 5 favourite Villa games I've seen live. The cup final day and aftermath changed everything and it did become very negative afterwards...I can barely recall anything that happened in 2000/01 bar the Nilis goal v Chelsea, Ginola with his fit as butchers dog celebration in one game and Merse sending Cov down right at the end, that's it. Got better in 01/02 but everyone knew we'd fall down the table after going top and so it happened. His stock would've been very high if he'd left shortly after the cup final like Southgate and James did. Think he'd signed a new deal a few weeks before the final so pay off would've probably been too much for us in those times. It was a real sliding doors moment that day as Chelsea were already in the ascendency and Abramovich took over a few years later while we really did become stagnant under Ellis while others improved. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Follyfoot said: Quite simply, he should not brought Dublin back for the semi or in the final, the team, the beat. Leeds would’ve won the cup I always wonder what happened to Hendrie as he had a fantastic 1998 that got him an England call up before dipping. He was always a regular under JG yet looking at the cup final he only got two minutes at the end and Steve Stone was put on ahead of him?! Can only think that was the period where he was having significant personal issues off the pitch. Taylor wasn't fit for that final at all so he couldn't make many forward runs and Chelsea easily marked Merse and Carbone out of the game so we offered very little at all in the final third. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Jas10 said: Ellis didn’t allow him to take the club where he wanted it to be… can be boiled down or completely simplified to that. And… it hurt him deeply too… he still speaks of it today… partly why he walked away… I really admired JG because his love and passion for Aston Villa was obvious and deep, and he wasn’t afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve… he was so invested. He was honest and wasn’t afraid to say it like it was (maybe not always wise, but certainly refreshing). Always bigged up and praised the club and spoke how “special” it is… and that we should never feel inferior to anyone… He did an amazing job picking us up after BL’s departure and arriving from relative obscurity… surprised so many… Kept us at the top of the league for a while too… He built good sides that played some good stuff… some proper players… always felt we just needed that extra push and extra backing to establish ourselves in that “upper echelon” of the league but… things didn’t work out that way sadly… Summer 2000 was where it all fell away. Chelsea signed Hasselbaink for 20m which was miles above what we were paying at the time (we signed Milner for 8m in 2008 and that was our record signing!). Leeds got in Viduka for about 6m from Celtic which should've been in our range but instead we got very unlucky with Nilis and spent ages haggling with Carbone over wage demands and in the end he went to Bradford and nearly bankrupted them! Beni might've faded away but at least he was the sort who could come up with a spectacular goal or moment in final third. Without him we became very workmanlike indeed and it was dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, VillaChris said: Summer 2000 was where it all fell away. Chelsea signed Hasselbaink for 20m which was miles above what we were paying at the time (we signed Milner for 8m in 2008 and that was our record signing!). Leeds got in Viduka for about 6m from Celtic which should've been in our range but instead we got very unlucky with Nilis and spent ages haggling with Carbone over wage demands and in the end he went to Bradford and nearly bankrupted them! Beni might've faded away but at least he was the sort who could come up with a spectacular goal or moment in final third. Without him we became very workmanlike indeed and it was dull. Would’ve loved Beni to stay, such a stylish player, that Leeds hat trick (esp the long range goal) will forever be embedded in my memories… him and Merse in the same team was lovely… Just imagine if JG would’ve been allowed to sign more River Plate players (as he wanted) like Aimar, Saviola, Yepes alongside Angel… what a team we would have been! Oh and if we managed to get Christian Vieri too what an incredible CF he was… He wanted Forlan at one point too but that was probably better missed out on Mind you, he was ace once he left Manure… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 13 minutes ago, VillaChris said: His first two seasons were full of wildly ridiculous entertaining matches, the 2-0 comeback v Arsenal and they were loads of high scoring games in that period. Beating Leeds 3-2 at VP in the FA cup season remains in my all time top 5 favourite Villa games I've seen live. The cup final day and aftermath changed everything and it did become very negative afterwards...I can barely recall anything that happened in 2000/01 bar the Nilis goal v Chelsea, Ginola with his fit as butchers dog celebration in one game and Merse sending Cov down right at the end, that's it. Got better in 01/02 but everyone knew we'd fall down the table after going top and so it happened. His stock would've been very high if he'd left shortly after the cup final like Southgate and James did. Think he'd signed a new deal a few weeks before the final so pay off would've probably been too much for us in those times. It was a real sliding doors moment that day as Chelsea were already in the ascendency and Abramovich took over a few years later while we really did become stagnant under Ellis while others improved. That Atletico game…. Wow… 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 His book about the Villa is quite interesting. I used to have it but may been lost in the house move. JG saw that Ellis was by the early 2000s holding Villa back. He left and Ellis stayed on too long. Apart from the MON years and basically the last 18 months the last 20 odd years has mostly been disappointing for the Villa, given the promising foundations we had for most of the 1990s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterDad Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I don’t disagree with those who say that Doug was holding us back, the Robbie Keane saga being a case in point - however rightfully or wrongly my overall memory of Gregory is sitting in the Witton lane feeling totally underwhelmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Looking back i don’t think he was the right man to take us forward after Little had built a top 6 squad. Ellis backed him quite a bit in his first transfer window and whilst he signed some decent players I don’t think he was thinking long term enough. Your 4-7m signings were big money back then and if you going to sign a few of them in the late 20s like Stone, Merson, Dublin etc you aren’t looking at the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Agree there. Gregory actually spent a lot of money. Off the top of my head £4m Alan Thompson £4m Steve Watson £6.5m Paul Merson £5.7m Dion Dublin £5.5m Steve Stone £9.5m Juan Pablo Angel £6m Balaban In fairness, that was a lot back then and I have left out some. Of that lot only Merson, Dublin and Angel really worked out. We were chasing Beni McCarthy for a long time too! Also, someone mentioned Lee Hendrie before the cup final. I think he had an injury. He came on to take a penalty in the semi final, right at the end. Ellis made a mistake bringing back Graham Taylor when JG walked. That just didn't work out. I love Taylor but I think he didn't utilise Angel at all and brought in Allback and Crouch who didn't really work out. Edited January 20 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I remember 2001-02 being the first Villa season where I was really disappointed and underwhelmed. Only because I had huge optimism before the season. We signed Schmeichel, Mellberg, Kachloul and Hadji who I was dying for us to sign as he was one of favourite players in the league who didnt play for Villa and of course scored three times against us the previous season. We finally negotiated the InterToto cup and started the season pretty well. Unbeaten in the first 7 beating Liverpool at Anfield and were seconds away from beating United. After the United game, Merson was saying that it was typical Villa, about to get a great result and show of intent, then capitulate at the last minute. He wasn't wrong. However it soon turned to shit. We had yet another embarrassing European exit on away goals to a team (NK Varteks) who I had never heard of before or since. We bomb out of the League Cup early at home to Division 1 Wednesday. Then predictably our league form nosedives. 1 win in 11 between November and new years then that awful 3-2 FA Cup 3rd round exit to United after being 2-0 up. Outside of Mellberg, none of the signings worked out. Balaban - A complete disaster. Schmeichel - Started the season well then fell off a cliff in the second half, being at a fault for loads of goals. Kachloul - Injury prone and ineffective Hadji - Never given a fair crack of the whip. Showed flashes of brilliance but Gregory couldn't get the best out of him. Then Gregory resigns in early 2002 and it would only get worse from there. In comes Taylor who signs a load of old shit and flops complete with dreadful results and dinosaur tactics. I don't remember feeling more disillusioned as a Villa fan up to that point than in 2003. We were utterly spoilt in the 90s looking back. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 20 hours ago, Jas10 said: I don't really associate Angels time at Villa with Gregory for some reason, which is odd because presumably he signed him? Maybe because I only picture the Dublin, Merson, Collymore, Hendrie etc team under Gregory and not what came after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Angel was with us for a long time. Gregory signed him, got a good half season out of him. JPA had his best season under O'Leary. Agree with the point above that 2002-03 was a terrible season. Our first season outside the top 8 since 1994-95. Edited January 20 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9.5m in 2001 was in insane amount of money for a completely unproven player in Europe. I'm not sure how River Plate got that fee for him. He was barely an established international player either. Mark Viduka and Robbie Keane were signed for 6m at the same time. Arsenal signed Henry for slightly more and Pires for slightly less. It was a huge gamble paying that for JPA. JPA wasn't a flop and he wasn't a success either but I do love the guy. He always tried his best despite the many problems he had off the field with his family settling here etc. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 17 hours ago, ChesterDad said: I thought he was awful TRO - completely bored me to tears, his first thought was do not lose. I guess footie is all about opinions Alex’s injury was dreadful - truly great player, never shirked a challenge and could see a pass. I can’t recall which Sandwell towner did this, was it Cantello or that carthorse Brown? Ali Brown, did it, in the centre circle, arguably an unnecessary part of the pitch....I could hear the crack, from the upper trinity. I liked John, sure the spectacle was not great, in the latter times of his tenure.....but I liked the resillience and durabilty of the team....as you say, its opinions. I think my first thought is do not lose.....based on the notion, that there is something to build on. I always feel gungho football, usually ends in tears, the goals dry up, and the defence opens up. I would respectfully say this.....any top team you think, is playing attactive football, take time out to study their defensive structure, you might be surprised to learn, how central it is to their success. Edited January 20 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 12 hours ago, VillaChris said: His first two seasons were full of wildly ridiculous entertaining matches, the 2-0 comeback v Arsenal and they were loads of high scoring games in that period. Beating Leeds 3-2 at VP in the FA cup season remains in my all time top 5 favourite Villa games I've seen live. The cup final day and aftermath changed everything and it did become very negative afterwards...I can barely recall anything that happened in 2000/01 bar the Nilis goal v Chelsea, Ginola with his fit as butchers dog celebration in one game and Merse sending Cov down right at the end, that's it. Got better in 01/02 but everyone knew we'd fall down the table after going top and so it happened. His stock would've been very high if he'd left shortly after the cup final like Southgate and James did. Think he'd signed a new deal a few weeks before the final so pay off would've probably been too much for us in those times. It was a real sliding doors moment that day as Chelsea were already in the ascendency and Abramovich took over a few years later while we really did become stagnant under Ellis while others improved. That final, where James made a rick.....it was turgid, and I had the Mother of all Colds, that day.....The game made me feel worse.....One game, I find easy to forget......closely followed by the 4-0 Arsenal debacle, where our players, never turned up...won't forget that in a hurry either. Edited January 20 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jas10 said: Ellis didn’t allow him to take the club where he wanted it to be… can be boiled down or completely simplified to that. And… it hurt him deeply too… he still speaks of it today… partly why he walked away… I really admired JG because his love and passion for Aston Villa was obvious and deep, and he wasn’t afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve… he was so invested. He was honest and wasn’t afraid to say it like it was (maybe not always wise, but certainly refreshing). Always bigged up and praised the club and spoke how “special” it is… and that we should never feel inferior to anyone… He did an amazing job picking us up after BL’s departure and arriving from relative obscurity… surprised so many… Kept us at the top of the league for a while too… He built good sides that played some good stuff… some proper players… always felt we just needed that extra push and extra backing to establish ourselves in that “upper echelon” of the league but… things didn’t work out that way sadly… Ellis didn't have the money, to allow the club to take risks. There are many things, he was bad for, but he did have his good elements too.....I wouldn't have said that in my earlier years following Villa...I was very anti, but I mellowed and saw the bigger picture. HDE was the topic of a very mixed bag of opinions, depending which bit, is in debate......There was no doubt for me, He was fond of Villa. He just didn't have the personal wealth, to make it work. He just had enough to cover his position, but he did run the administration side, quite well. He was never going to allow the club to slip in to Financial jeopardy, more than I can say for his successors. Any football manager was bound to discover frustration, with Doug and John did. Its only now, we come to realise, just how indispensible our current owners are......be interesting to see John Gregory, Brian Little and the likes, would operate under such overwhelming support. Edited January 20 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts