Xann Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 None of these extinction events were caused by farting. Not taking your word for that. Few hundred vegetarian dinosaurs inside an inadequately ventilated ark. Anything could happen Pow, end of species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 8, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2012 There were no dinosaurs on the Ark. Dinosaurs are a myth created by evolutionists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just ask these guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 My main concern with religion is this, if I get married, my wife dies, and then I get remarried, when I go to heaven which one is waiting for me? If it's both, I think I'd rather go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's Rorschach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 God bless all of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Pointless religion thread #72984729992109 on VT. In the entire history of the known universe, nothing has ever been accomplished and nobody has ever changed their mind on anything as a result of online discussion regarding religion. This thread will go one of three ways: 1. No religious folk will post and the atheists on VT will get bored of their self congratulation after five pages, leaving the thread to eventually dissolve into nothingness. 2. Religious folk will post, at which point the thread will explode to fifty plus pages, most of which will be mockery of said religious folk punctuated by the odd reasonable, intelligent post that will be inevitably ignored. 3. Religious folk will post, at which point a fair and reasonable debate will ensue, however 99% of posters will be so preoccupied on their own opinion that they won't bother to read anybody elses, the result being that the same 3 arguments are repeated ad infinitum for 300 pages. emphatically not so. I am living proof. I am an Ex Christian. At 19 years of age, 29 years ago, I did the whole born again Christian thing and was heavily invested in evangelical christianity. After many many years of struggle with huge issues concerning biblical canon, the authenticity of the gospels, the politics and history of the church and the character of the old testament Yahweh, I finally gave in and renounced the entire thing, and a good deal of the research I did in order to go through this process included a lot of online discussion and research. that's all. I don't want to necessarily go through the entire story with you all, but believe me, people who are heavily committed can indeed change their minds after many years. Just go to Ex Christian.net and read the "extimonies" that are there for evidence. Some harrowing stories there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 My opinion is that the dogma is the small print in the contract, because it could never be the main selling point. Particularly in modern society where a lot of earlier suppositions have been rubbished by science. It is the offer of 'community', guidance on the 'right way to live' and the comforting notion of an afterlife for deceased loved ones that appeals to most, it just happens that you have to accept (or at least pretend to accept) the other bits in order to avail of the more appealing elements of religion. The fact is that community and the right way to live is a personal choice available to everyone. It doesn't need any dogma. I live 'right'. I'm an atheist and I'm very conscientious. I don't need an imaginary person watching over me to ensure I 'do unto others as I would have done unto me'. I think that's basic common decency. I have community where I live and I have enough friends and relatives for any 'support' that I may or may not need. As for the need to believe in an afterlife, well, again, that's something I don't need to believe in. When you're gone you're gone. Wanting it to be true i.e. subscribing to a religion, doesn't make it any more true or any more likely. It is what it is. exactly (the first bit especially. truth be told, my conversion didn't involve a lot of bible reading , doctrinal examinations or dogma. It was about being 19, insecure, being accepted by kind and loving people and being gievn reasons for existence that at the time seemed very plausible and real, that there was a beneficient deity who was intimatley concerned with my life, destiny and well being, and that he had a plan for me. The doctrines and all the other stuff came a little later and that's when the problems began. Unfortunately, I was already well in by then, the ideas of judgement and eternal loss were well entrenched and it took 29 years until the cognitive dissonance and ass backwardsness of my inner life became just an intolerable mental noise, a great roaring howl that I simply couldn't stand. I finally decided to do something I thought I'd never do, and that was to take the old dusty box out of the closet I had locked up with all the troublesome, difficult stuff about believing in Christianity in the 21st century. I opened the box and spread all of the stuff out and minutely examined it all to try and make sense of it all. When I had finished this project a few weeks later, there was nothing left but a cold empty wind. No God, no saviour, no afterlife, nothing. I tell you, it took a bit of getting used to. may seem like insanity to some here but that's my tale, or some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I guess what I'm trying to say in agreement with BOFs initial few lines is that biblical dogma is very rarely the selling point, in fact for most ex Christians, it was studying the bible intensely to try to understand it which in the end killed their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If anyone here has any questions that I might be able to answer, having been firmly on both sides of the fence, I'd be happy to oblige, and yes, you can scorn my idiocy for retaining that faith for so long if you wish... I was, albeit a very long time ago, one of those obnoxious street evangelists for a while. My faith had become rather more subdued, private and even hidden over the intervening decades since then. The final end concerned a final rejection of the resurrection, a rather heart rending series of moments. The death of faith, is never pleasant. It is hard, nay very hard, to realize everything you took to be real and true for many years, your entire worldview, is a complete crock of shit. Rather difficult to swallow that, for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If anyone here has any questions that I might be able to answer, having been firmly on both sides of the fence, I'd be happy to oblige, and yes, you can scorn my idiocy for retaining that faith for so long if you wish... I was, albeit a very long time ago, one of those obnoxious street evangelists for a while. My faith had become rather more subdued, private and even hidden over the intervening decades since then. The final end concerned a final rejection of the resurrection, a rather heart rending series of moments. The death of faith, is never pleasant. It is hard, nay very hard, to realize everything you took to be real and true for many years, your entire worldview, is a complete crock of shit. Rather difficult to swallow that, for anyone. If you ever have regrets about it, ask yourself, if the Christians were right all along, you'd really like to spend eternity in heaven with them, or with the people who share your current views. Q.E.D. Heaven is actually hell. Well done to mjmooney for starting this thread. A million times more fun and interesting than wrestling or golf threads. Indeed it is possible that people who prefer discussion of golf and wrestling to discussion of religion end up in the same heaven as the Christians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I've participated in many of the religion threads and feel about them pretty much like everyone else, but perhaps this will get people a little more animated. Last week on tv I watched 2 programmes: One was about a Somali girl from London returning to Mogadishu where all the buildings are just burned out shells and apart from round the clock shooting they also mutilate the genitalia of young girls. The second was about Bishop Brady (?) in Ireland and his part in the Catholic paedophile cover up, which in several cases, that he already knew about, allowed the abuse to continue unchecked. Now we all know the Koran does not tell Muslims to spend all day trying to kill people and mutilate children, any more than Jesus told his disciplers to screw as many kids as possible. However, to any thinking person it seems abundantly clear that such outrages are more likely to occur in a religious atmosphere, rather than in a properly educated society. Yet neither programme made the slightest reference to this blantantly obvious fact... presumably to avoid causing offence. Has the time not come to withdraw our tolerance, much less respect, for these warped superstitions, and point out at every possible occasion exactly what kind of filth these believers are peddling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 9, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree that the abuse is "more likely to occur in a religious atmosphere". It does provide a cover for the abusers, it's true. But perverted cruelty takes place in secular environments too. Going back to norton's "extimony" - that is a VERY interesting story, mate. I'm sorry that you found the death of faith to be painful and unpleasant - it ought to be a something of a relief. But I guess I can understand it when you were so deep in it beforehand. It's a real pity that the people you got away from can't just be "philosophical Christians", i.e. emphasise the pacifist teachings of the historical Jesus, without feeling the need to buy into the primitive superstitious aspects of the cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I do think abuse is (a bit) more likely to occur in a religious atmosphere. For one, people are able to set themselves up in positions of social authority on the basis of nothing more than their proclaimed belief in a religion. For two, a religious atmosphere (or any atmosphere of belief in something unproven) leads to the warping of children's and adults' values and views on things based on mistaken ideas. For three, people tend to self-justify and self-congratulate. Religion allows its followers to do both, regardless of whatever abusive acts they commit - after all, god will forgive them and eventually reward them for being such great worshippers. Similar arguments can be used to show that religion is a poison which leads to many other evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Can you imagine a World without religion? To be fair, I think without religion people would still find issues to divide themselves over, like race. It's inherent in human nature, the tendency to differentiate in one's own mind another group of human beings from one's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The death of faith, is never pleasant Hmm, for me it wasn't. In fact I found it quite liberating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The death of religion does not mean the death of faith. I went to a catholic school, and it was like a prison for my mind religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 9, 2012 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 9, 2012 To be fair, I think without religion people would still find issues to divide themselves over, like race. It's inherent in human nature, the tendency to differentiate in one's own mind another group of human beings from one's own.This is true, and it's probably been an evolutionary advantage in the past. But the tendency has been to widen the groups that we relate to. First it was the individual, then the nuclear family, the extended family, the tribe, village, city, nation, political philosophy, religion, ethnicity. Of course these rivalries still exist, but I believe that they can be sublimated into things like sport. If the human race doesn't destroy itself first, we could eventually develop a 'human race' consciousness. Just in time to take on those pesky aliens from the planet Tharg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 To be fair, I think without religion people would still find issues to divide themselves over, like race. It's inherent in human nature, the tendency to differentiate in one's own mind another group of human beings from one's own. That may be true, but it's not a reason to hang on to religion. Get rid of bullshit one bit at a time. The tendency of which you speak is part of the whole tendency for people to self-congratulate and self-justify. I've no idea what's to be done about it, I'm just glad that I'm not like all those people who've never even thought about the issue. () Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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