MakemineVanilla Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Faith in a god isn't a feeling its a con job As a proper Lefty you should really describe it as a central plank in what Gramsci called Cultural Hegemony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Religion is not a feeling though. It's a stimuli that evokes feelings such as faith. Whereas wife/kids/Villa etc are stimuli that evoke feelings such as love (and despair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I normally agree with MMV but this is getting silly. It's a huge non sequitur. I don't think it is. I have simply stated that both love and religion are feelings and should be treated as equal. For it to be a non sequitur I have to introduce a third factor and claim that it is the same, which I have not done. Thus: All men are humans Mary is human Therefore Mary is man. You can dispute that love or religion is not a feeling but it is not a non sequitur. In the face of some stiff opposition, that's possibly the most semantic post of the year, well done! OK, to attempt to throw some of your logic at it: Love is a feeling of devotion for a human being. Religion is a feeling of devotion for a supernatural being. Human beings exist, supernaural beings do not. Feelings of devotion for things that exist are not the same as feelings of devotion for things that do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Faith in a god isn't a feeling its a con job As a proper Lefty you should really describe it as a central plank in what Gramsci called Cultural Hegemony. Ugh, that reminds me of one of my finals at university about Gramsci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I normally agree with MMV but this is getting silly. It's a huge non sequitur. I don't think it is. I have simply stated that both love and religion are feelings and should be treated as equal. For it to be a non sequitur I have to introduce a third factor and claim that it is the same, which I have not done. Thus: All men are humans Mary is human Therefore Mary is man. You can dispute that love or religion is not a feeling but it is not a non sequitur. In the face of some stiff opposition, that's possibly the most semantic post of the year, well done! OK, to attempt to throw some of your logic at it: Love is a feeling of devotion for a human being. Religion is a feeling of devotion for a supernatural being. Human beings exist, supernaural beings do not. Feelings of devotion for things that exist are not the same as feelings of devotion for things that do not. I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I think religion is b******* but I tend to think love is b******* too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 But religion is not a feeling!!! Faith is a feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 27, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2014 Love is a feeling of devotion for a human being. Religion is a feeling of devotion for a supernatural being. Human beings exist, supernaural beings do not. Feelings of devotion for things that exist are not the same as feelings of devotion for things that do not. There's two interesting things in there Firstly, the definition of religion. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it seems a bit simple to me - isn't there more to religion than that? isn't it a bit broader? Like all the stuff about believing (despite a complete lack of evidence) that the supernatural being exists in the first place? And all the stuff about (particularly for organised religion) following a set of "rules" that are somehow purported to be the word of the non-existent super-being? and the denial that anyone else's super-natural super-bing exists (not always, but mostly). And the other interesting thing is whether feelings of devotion for one thing (that does exist) are different to feelings for another thing (that doesn't exist). to the beholder, aren't they exactly the same? a sate of mind that says "she's great". Whether she exists or not, doesn't really matter to the beholder. It's a kind of separate issue. People who have not eaten for a long time, can feel feel hungry, but so can someone who has no physical need of nourishment at all. The feeling of hunger is the same, whether they are actually in need of real food, or just have a phantom hunger?....mmmm...biscuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well, I've been away all week in glorious sunshine, I've worked from home today which was lovely. I've organised for some new double glazing units which arrived and got fitted by a very nice man that arrived with the message 'tell Chris we can sort out the bill another time'. I've kept the old units and successfully split them down for greenhouse glass - the 600mm module working perfectly. I've then topped up all the levels on the car, washed it, polished it and garaged it. Everyone's home, I'm about to make lasagne. Now, now it decides to monsoon rain. Boom, all the scientific proof you want, right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Love is a feeling of devotion for a human being. Religion is a feeling of devotion for a supernatural being. Human beings exist, supernaural beings do not. Feelings of devotion for things that exist are not the same as feelings of devotion for things that do not. There's two interesting things in there Firstly, the definition of religion. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it seems a bit simple to me - isn't there more to religion than that? isn't it a bit broader? Like all the stuff about believing (despite a complete lack of evidence) that the supernatural being exists in the first place? And all the stuff about (particularly for organised religion) following a set of "rules" that are somehow purported to be the word of the non-existent super-being? and the denial that anyone else's super-natural super-bing exists (not always, but mostly). And the other interesting thing is whether feelings of devotion for one thing (that does exist) are different to feelings for another thing (that doesn't exist). to the beholder, aren't they exactly the same? a sate of mind that says "she's great". Whether she exists or not, doesn't really matter to the beholder. It's a kind of separate issue. People who have not eaten for a long time, can feel feel hungry, but so can someone who has no physical need of nourishment at all. The feeling of hunger is the same, whether they are actually in need of real food, or just have a phantom hunger?....mmmm...biscuits. Yes of course there's more to religion than a four line message on a football forum! I was merely responding to MMV's apparent assertion that Love and Religion should be dismissed equally because they are similar concepts. The limited point that i was making is that as the objects of the affection are completely different, they cannot cannot be compared at all. Personally, I think that MMV probably just needs a good hug. (Not from me, I hasten to add). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well, I've been away all week in glorious sunshine, I've worked from home today which was lovely. I've organised for some new double glazing units which arrived and got fitted by a very nice man that arrived with the message 'tell Chris we can sort out the bill another time'. I've kept the old units and successfully split them down for greenhouse glass - the 600mm module working perfectly. I've then topped up all the levels on the car, washed it, polished it and garaged it. Everyone's home, I'm about to make lasagne. Now, now it decides to monsoon rain. Boom, all the scientific proof you want, right there. Conversely, on the IOM, we're having our annual company beach barbecue in an hour, and the clouds part and the sun decides to come out. There definitely IS a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 So,what about devil worshipers then ?! If they believe in the devil then they must believe in god as well...cause you can`t have one without the other ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 So,what about devil worshipers then ?!If they believe in the devil then they must believe in god as well...cause you can`t have one without the other ?!Nobody says they don't believe in God ... They just chose to support the guy who didn't drown innocent babies en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 30, 2014 Administrator Share Posted June 30, 2014 So,what about devil worshipers then ?! If they believe in the devil then they must believe in god as well...cause you can`t have one without the other ?! The devil is the good guy if you bothered to read the book. (Don't worry, even most religious types have never read the book by which they "live their lives".) I've heard a lot about "devil worshippers", but I've never actually met one. I'm not sure they exist. Satanists exist, but that means something quite different to what I think you mean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 So,what about devil worshipers then ?! If they believe in the devil then they must believe in god as well...cause you can`t have one without the other ?! Nobody says they don't believe in God ... They just chose to support the guy who didn't drown innocent babies en masse. That`s what I mean,if there is a god then there is a devil,it`s a different angle of looking at it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Fire down below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Fire down below Burning sensation when he's urinating? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 That`s interesting.............................how do you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581 Ashers Baking Company: 'Gay cake' row could end up in court A Christian-run bakery that refused a customer's request to make a cake with a slogan supporting gay marriage could face a discrimination case in court. Ashers Baking Company declined an order from a gay rights activist, asking for cake featuring the Sesame Street puppets, Bert and Ernie. The customer also wanted the cake to feature the logo of a Belfast-based campaign group called "Queerspace". The County Antrim firm could face legal action from the Equality Commission. The watchdog confirmed it is assisting the customer whose order was refused and has written to the baking company on his behalf. Christian beliefs The bakery, which was founded in Newtownabbey in 1992, is run by the McArthur family. The directors, who are Christians, operate six shops in Northern Ireland and employ 62 people. The firm's 24-year-old general manager, Daniel McArthur, said marriage in Northern Ireland "still is defined as being a union between one man and one woman" and said his company was taking "a stand". The customer placed the order in Ashers' Belfast branch a number of weeks ago, and it was then passed to their head office. In an online statement, Mr McArthur said: "The directors and myself looked at it and considered it and thought that this order was at odds with our beliefs. "It certainly was at odds with what the Bible teaches, and on the following Monday we rang the customer to let him know that we couldn't take his order." 'Discriminated' Mr MrArthur added that his firm offered the customer a full refund, which was collected shortly after the order was refused. "We thought that was the end of it, but approximately six weeks later we received a letter from the Equality Commission. The Equality Commission's letter said that we had discriminated against the customer on the grounds of his sexual orientation. Northern Ireland is now the only part of the UK which has not passed a law to introduce same-sex marriage "It asked us to propose how we would recompense the customer for this discrimination. It also said it would pursue legal proceedings if we didn't respond within a seven-day time period," Mr McArthur said. Legal assistance The general manager said he was "very surprised" by the watchdog's letter and his firm asked the Christian Institute for advice on how to deal with the case. The institute is supporting the bakery's stance and is now providing legal assistance. Mr McArthur said: "I feel if we don't take a stand on this here case, then how can we stand up against it, further down the line?" The general manager added that it was not the first time his company had refused customers' cake orders. "In the past, we've declined several orders which have contained pornographic images and offensive, foul language." Mr McArthur added: "I would like the outcome of this to be that, any Christians running a business could be allowed to follow their Christian beliefs and principles in the day-to-day running of their business and that they are allowed to make decisions based on that." 'Unlawful discrimination' However, Gavin Boyd, a gay rights campaigner with the Rainbow Project in Northern Ireland, supported the customer's discrimination complaint. "It is because of sexual orientation that the company decided not to print this," Mr Boyd told BBC Radio Ulster. "The law is really clear. You cannot pick and choose which sides of the law apply to you. "If you are a company that is trading out there in the market place and someone comes to you, you can't pick and choose whether or not to fulfil that order based on their sexual orientation," Mr Boyd added. In a statement, the watchdog said: "The Equality Commission for Northern Ireland provides advice and can provide assistance to people who complain to us that they have suffered unlawful discrimination. "In this case the commission has granted assistance to the complainant, and has written to the company concerned on his behalf. "The commission will consider any response before taking further action." Northern Ireland is now the only part of the UK which has not passed a law to introduce same-sex marriage. I hope the bakery loses this case. By the sounds of it they should do. It's fairly straightforward discrimination on religious/sexuality grounds, I'd have thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 The guy ordered a cake from there with the hope of them refusing it so he could bash on the Christian ethics I presume. And I assume the case will be going through the same courts that haven't made it legal for two people of the same sex to be married yet? Either way, I hate cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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