TRS-T Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 900 appearances for Manchester United is an amazing achievement. But 64 caps for Wales is shockingly low. For a player who had a 16 year international career he should have at least 100 caps, maybe even 150. I get the feeling that he was never really committed to playing for his country. After his international debut in 1991 against Germany, Giggs did not attend a friendly international until some nine years later, after which he missed a further 18 consecutive friendly games. Is Sir Alex to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you played for Manchester United, a team competing at the very highest level year after year, would you risk an injury playing for Wales, a country that will never achieve anything in international football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 He wasn't committed to Wales. Always 'injured' when a game came around. Probably didn't help that he would've been the only good Welsh player during his era. He missed the Rush/Saunders generation and the current one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAFC2000 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you played for Manchester United, a team competing at the very highest level year after year, would you risk an injury playing for Wales, a country that will never achieve anything in international football? Sometimes I do wander. I was listening to Lewis Moody the other day he was saying how in Rugby the players automatically raise there game by 10% when playing internationally. I think this is lacking in the Football and its wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you played for Manchester United, a team competing at the very highest level year after year, would you risk an injury playing for Wales, a country that will never achieve anything in international football? Sometimes I do wander. I was listening to Lewis Moody the other day he was saying how in Rugby the players automatically raise there game by 10% when playing internationally. I think this is lacking in the Football and its wrong. Thats because international Rugby is the pinnacle of the game, international football is a distraction. To get the big endorsements in Rugby you have to be a highly performing international player, you don't in football. International football for players in the PL isn't about being in the shop window like it is for players in other countries, they are already in one of the top leagues. So really, they aren't that bothered or motivated, despite what they say and even possibly think at the back of their mind will always be the prospect of getting injured and ruling themselves out of club football for a while. And let's be honest International football is a largely dull spectacle, I rarely watch it, its bores me beyond belief at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think he made the right choice and the career he has enjoyed is evidence of that. He has had a staggering career, broken all kinds of records and won everything there is to win the domestic game. He wouldn't have achieved anywhere near as much had he played international football and he sure would have picked up more injuries. Sure playing for his country was an honour but what real difference does it make if he has 64 caps or 100? What difference would him having played in a load of meaningless friendlies made to him or Wales? Giggs has had the career he has had because he was smart, he listened to Fergie and made the most of what he has and the chances he was given. Lee Sharpe must be sitting somewhere watching Giggs and thinking why didn't I listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Had Giggs been Scottish he would have got more caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Giggs has had the career he has had because he was smart, he listened to Fergie and made the most of what he has and the chances he was given. Lee Sharpe must be sitting somewhere watching Giggs and thinking why didn't I listen. Could say the same about Lee Hendrie and Gareth Barry I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If you played for Manchester United, a team competing at the very highest level year after year, would you risk an injury playing for Wales, a country that will never achieve anything in international football? Sometimes I do wander. I was listening to Lewis Moody the other day he was saying how in Rugby the players automatically raise there game by 10% when playing internationally. I think this is lacking in the Football and its wrong. Thats because international Rugby is the pinnacle of the game, international football is a distraction. To get the big endorsements in Rugby you have to be a highly performing international player, you don't in football. International football for players in the PL isn't about being in the shop window like it is for players in other countries, they are already in one of the top leagues. So really, they aren't that bothered or motivated, despite what they say and even possibly think at the back of their mind will always be the prospect of getting injured and ruling themselves out of club football for a while. And let's be honest International football is a largely dull spectacle, I rarely watch it, its bores me beyond belief at times That is a very rare view on international football mostly found in the UK. You tell most of the other European players that internationals is a distraction and they will think you are crazy. Compare Schmeichel (129) or Ronaldo (86 currently) to Giggs. Laursen and Mellberg would never back out either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 well aside from friendlies, wales were never going to get those extra 3+ games in tournaments anyway, so from 92-2010, 3 ( group games ) x 10 tournaments = 30 games less already from not getting to finals for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thats because international Rugby is the pinnacle of the game, international football is a distraction. To get the big endorsements in Rugby you have to be a highly performing international player, you don't in football. International football for players in the PL isn't about being in the shop window like it is for players in other countries, they are already in one of the top leagues. So really, they aren't that bothered or motivated, despite what they say and even possibly think at the back of their mind will always be the prospect of getting injured and ruling themselves out of club football for a while. And let's be honest International football is a largely dull spectacle, I rarely watch it, its bores me beyond belief at times That is a very rare view on international football mostly found in the UK. You tell most of the other European players that internationals is a distraction and they will think you are crazy. Compare Schmeichel (129) or Ronaldo (86 currently) to Giggs. Laursen and Mellberg would never back out either. To be fair it's a slightly more complicated discussion than that. It very much depends on the domestic league involved and the perception of it's national side. Denmark & Portugal's best players usually play outside their country in stronger leagues. So when they get together for their national team, the Danish or Portuguese national sides are significantly stronger than what their respective domestic leagues would be. As such, it's arguably more significant for them to represent their country because that's them flying their national flag, because in an international sense their domestic league itself isn't carrying the flag. In England, for example, that's not the case (I appreciate Giggs is Wales, we'll get to that). The PL is (a lot) stronger than the national side and the national players; barring the odd rare exception; play within that league. The Premier League carries the flag for England in world football much more than the national side does, which is why the international dates might be seen more so as a distraction in England than perhaps in other places. Spain for a long time were in the same position that England are now. It wasn't until Barcelona's academy came to fruition and the Spanish national side could almost entirely lift & drop the Barca side that Spain started to achieve anything. Now their national side is as important over there to the players as the club games are. That wasn't the case until quite recently. In the case of Wales and particularly a player playing for Man Utd, it's exactly the same only more so. And in a period of Welsh history where he'd have been the only significant player, it'd have shortened his career too. But it still smacks of a lack of patriotism. Dwight Yorke is an example of someone playing half the games Giggs did in his career, for an equally poor national side but for an equally good club side & league, and even he managed 72 caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 well aside from friendlies, wales were never going to get those extra 3+ games in tournaments anyway, so from 92-2010, 3 ( group games ) x 10 tournaments = 30 games less already from not getting to finals for a start. Gareth Bale is only 22 and he already has 33 caps for Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 If Giggs wanted to have more international caps he could of done, but the simple fact is he wasnt bothered about Wales. He wasnt patriotic and his performances for Wales were not of the same quality as they were for Manchester United. You do have to question the character of Mr Giggs. But I am not sure I agree about international football not being important. We have all seen how the world stops when the world cup is on. And to a lesser extent when the Euro is on. I also disagree with the notion that it is only the players and fans from small countries that care about international football. Brazilian fans and players alike are crazy about the yellow shirt. And the same with Argentina (but not Messi) with regards to their national team. Me personally there is nothing better in football then a big international tournament. I know the last 3 world cups have been a big let down but the feeling when the tournament is on I just cannot describe, I just feel so happy. And I know many who agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2012 I also disagree with the notion that it is only the players and fans from small countries that care about international football.I never said that. In fact I cited Spain as the example and explained that a successful national side helps the cause. So Brazil and Argentina are perfect examples of very successful and popular national sides who also have a fair proportion of their national side playing outside their domestic leagues and enjoy mental support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think in England international football is not looked kindly uppn. Rarely you see a player from other nations pull out as frequently as e.g Gerrard does for games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Interestingly Keane and Scholes had similar amount of international caps am sure its not a coincidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wasn't Scholes 29 when he retired from international football? I know the clubs pay the wages but that's unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wasn't Scholes 29 when he retired from international football? I know the clubs pay the wages but that's unacceptable. Why is it? I mean I know that is a widely held view but why is it unacceptable for a professional footballer to put his actual paid playing career ahead of winning cloth caps? Why is it unacceptable to choose a prolonged club career ahead of travelling the world playing a mixture of meaningless friendlies and qualifying games for competitions you are never going to win? Why is it so unacceptable to want to play for your club and then spend the time you aren't playing for that club with your family? I'm not saying I'd make the same decision as Scholes or take the same course of action that Giggs took but I can understand why each of them make the decision they did and certainly don't think its unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wasn't Scholes 29 when he retired from international football? shearer was similar age as well when he retired, though Kevin Prince Boateng tops them all, he retired at start of year and dont think he is even 25 yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Wasn't Scholes 29 when he retired from international football? shearer was similar age as well when he retired, though Kevin Prince Boateng tops them all, he retired at start of year and dont think he is even 25 yet I think Shearer retired cos his body was **** and he wanted to prolong his club career. Whereas I think Scholes retired partly cos he was fed up of being pissed around and played out of position all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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