Syria

[bickster]

US plans to 'degrade' Assad's capacity

A former US senior commander claims the Obama administration is planning to go beyond anticipated punitive strikes against the Assad regime

GeneralJack Keane, former vice chief of staff of the US army told the BBC that he understood President Obama was planning a more substantial intervention in Syria than had previously been believed, with increased support for the opposition forces, including training from US troops.

Keane spoke to the Republican senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham after they were briefed by Obama.

Keane told the Today Programme:

What he won't do is topple the regime. There's a distinction here.

What he has told the two senators is that he also intends to assist the opposition forces, so he is going to degrade Assad's military capacity and he is going to assist and upgrade the opposition forces with training assistance

Keane said any training would probably be done in neighbouring Jordan rather than in Syria itself.

From the Beeb Live feed.

AQ are Allies now it seems

[LondonLax]

Interesting that Israel has done this. I thought they were keen to stay in the background, to maintain the pretence that this is about the international community showing horror at the use of chemical weapons, instead of being a long-planned act of aggression for the US to weaken Syria as a key plank in Israel's mad, destructive, and dangerous regional policy.

It was a defence test not an attacking one.

[AVFCforever1991]

[Meath_Villan]

"Russia's missile early warning system spots two launches heading towards Syria, before Israel admits it was carrying out a test." -skynews

 

 

Wtf .....some time to be doing a "test" they should bomb the sh1t out of israel while there at it 

Edited September 3, 2013 by Meath_Villan

[peterms]

 

Interesting that Israel has done this. I thought they were keen to stay in the background, to maintain the pretence that this is about the international community showing horror at the use of chemical weapons, instead of being a long-planned act of aggression for the US to weaken Syria as a key plank in Israel's mad, destructive, and dangerous regional policy.

It was a defence test not an attacking one.

 

 

Yes.  They've been testing their defences for a while, including a few months ago, provoking rocket attacks from inside Gaza, to test the new shield.  They've also been trying out aggressive acts, and have been bombing Syria for some time.

[Awol]

USA bombs Syria = HZ rockets falling on Northern/Central Israel.

 

Given the racing certainty of the former, it's hardly reckless of the IDF to kick the tyres of their defences in order to prepare for the latter.

[LondonLax]

USA bombs Syria = HZ rockets falling on Northern/Central Israel.

Given the racing certainty of the former, it's hardly reckless of the IDF to kick the tyres of their defences in order to prepare for the latter.

Exactly. I imagine the Israelis are more nervous about this escalation in Syria than most.

[Chindie]

Shields can be threatening.

[Awol]

I imagine the Israelis are more nervous about this escalation in Syria than most.

Although he's no friend of theirs the end of Assad's regime would be a strategic disaster for Israel and they'll be demanding all kinds of reassurances from Washington at the moment. The IDF's offensive strikes into Syria have been to destroy kit that was being transferred to HZ in Lebanon for future use against them. Fair play, I reckon.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

One wonders what exactly the end game to all this is.

 

No more Assad, fine. Who then? They won't allow extremists to take charge, but how will they stop an armed movement? Further intervention?

 

Something doesn't add up.

[LondonLax]

One wonders what exactly the end game to all this is.

No more Assad, fine. Who then? They won't allow extremists to take charge, but how will they stop an armed movement? Further intervention?

Something doesn't add up.

The thing that doesn't add up is that the US is not in control and orchestrating the whole thing despite what you might read on the net.

It's the same as Egypt where the US wanted Mubarak to stay in power as they could deal with him and he was in control.

In Syria it is even worse as both sides are a crap option for the US whoever 'wins' this civil war.

Edited September 3, 2013 by LondonLax

[Awol]

The bigger picture is that removing the Alawite regime (it's not about Assad personally) and replacing it with a Sunni one of whatever stripe significantly weakens and isolates Iran by dissolving its only real regional alliance. It also makes make life for HZ much more difficult in Lebanon. 

 

The fact that this effectively throws the country of Syria and its people (the majority Sunni's no more wish to live under a Saudi inspired theocratic regime than they do a secular tyranny) under the bus doesn't even appear to be a consideration.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Awol

[peterms]

 

USA bombs Syria = HZ rockets falling on Northern/Central Israel.

Given the racing certainty of the former, it's hardly reckless of the IDF to kick the tyres of their defences in order to prepare for the latter.

Exactly. I imagine the Israelis are more nervous about this escalation in Syria than most.

 

 

They are pushing for it.  They want a weakened Syria, preferably as a precursor to taking on Iran (or rather the US taking on Iran).  They are using their very extensive and very well organised lobbying power to press for harder action.

 

However, they seem a little coy about it.  It seems the NYT has been persuaded to remove a passage in a recent article which mentioned this lobbying for an illegal war:

 

NYT excises AIPAC from Let’s Attack Syria story

 

September 2, 2013

Passage removed, H/T Niqnaq:

Administration officials said the influential pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC was already at work pressing for military action against Assad, fearing that if Syria escapes US retribution for its use of chemical weapons, Iran might be emboldened in the future to attack Israel. House majority leader Eric Cantor, the only Jewish Republican in Congress, has long worked to challenge Democrats’ traditional base among Jews. One administration official called AIPAC “the 800 lb gorilla in the room,” and said its allies in Congress had to be saying:

If the White House is not capable of enforcing this red line against the catastrophic use of chemical weapons, we’re in trouble.

NewsDiffs reports that the article had no less than nine edits:

 

The story remains uncensored for the moment in another publication, here.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

“the 800 lb gorilla in the room,”

 

 

Well, I'm sure Assad will think twice now knowing the Americans have King Kong on their side.

 

[peterms]

 

USA bombs Syria = HZ rockets falling on Northern/Central Israel.

Given the racing certainty of the former, it's hardly reckless of the IDF to kick the tyres of their defences in order to prepare for the latter.

Exactly. I imagine the Israelis are more nervous about this escalation in Syria than most.

 

 

I'm sure they are nervous about what might replace Assad.  The best outcome for them will be a much weakened Syria, with "degraded" military capability and either a compliant administration, or if that can't be delivered, little or no influence for the factions which would be less likely to toe the Israeli line.

 

Similarly, they were nervous about the replacement of Mubarak in Egypt, who had gone along with what they wanted.  I don't know what lobbying they did in support of the US ignoring the recent military coup, but perhaps we'll find out before too long.

[LondonLax]

 

 

USA bombs Syria = HZ rockets falling on Northern/Central Israel.

Given the racing certainty of the former, it's hardly reckless of the IDF to kick the tyres of their defences in order to prepare for the latter.

Exactly. I imagine the Israelis are more nervous about this escalation in Syria than most.

 

 

I'm sure they are nervous about what might replace Assad.  The best outcome for them will be a much weakened Syria, with "degraded" military capability and either a compliant administration, or if that can't be delivered, little or no influence for the factions which would be less likely to toe the Israeli line.

 

Similarly, they were nervous about the replacement of Mubarak in Egypt, who had gone along with what they wanted.  I don't know what lobbying they did in support of the US ignoring the recent military coup, but perhaps we'll find out before too long.

 

 

I agree, when it its right on their border it is much better to have "the devil you know", so to speak. 

[bickster]

Mission creep gathering at pace before a shot is fired in anger.

Only this morning Obama was talking about simply nullifying Assad's CWs. RAND report says that isn't very probable even if they had air superiority and a no fly zone

Now its talk of arming "vetted" rebels (seriously, they don't appear to be joking). Downing St isn't ruling out arming them either

They just won't listen will they

[peterms]

So we will soon be hearing from a defector to the effect that Assad has used chemical weapons.

 

'Defector' press conference cancelled

The Syrian opposition has cancelled that planned press conference with chemical weapons official who it claimed was ready to announce his defection.

 

Khalid Saleh, spokesman for the opposition Syrian National Coalition, said Abdel Tawwab Shahrou could not attend the event.

 

"Due to security concerns he was not able to be with us today. However we hope to hold a press conference with him in the very near future."

 

He did not elaborate.

 

Saleh insisted that Shahrou was "aware of many of the crimes committed by the Assad regime in the province of Aleppo".

 

Let's all remember this:

 

Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war

• Man codenamed Curveball 'invented' tales of bioweapons

• Iraqi told lies to try to bring down Saddam Hussein regime

• Fabrications used by US as justification for invasion

 

The defector who convinced the White House that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme has admitted for the first time that he lied about his story, then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war.

 

Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, codenamed Curveball by German and American intelligence officials who dealt with his claims, has told the Guardian that he fabricated tales of mobile bioweapons trucks and clandestine factories in an attempt to bring down the Saddam Hussein regime, from which he had fled in 1995.

 

"Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right," he said. "They gave me this chance. I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that and we are proud that we were the reason to give Iraq the margin of democracy."

 

The admission comes just after the eighth anniversary of Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations in which the then-US secretary of state relied heavily on lies that Janabi had told the German secret service, the BND. It also follows the release of former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld's memoirs, in which he admitted Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction programme.

 

The careers of both men were seriously damaged by their use of Janabi's claims, which he now says could have been – and were – discredited well before Powell's landmark speech to the UN on 5 February 2003.

 

The former CIA chief in Europe Tyler Drumheller describes Janabi's admission as "fascinating", and said the emergence of the truth "makes me feel better". "I think there are still a number of people who still thought there was something in that. Even now," said Drumheller.

 

In the only other at length interview Janabi has given he denied all knowledge of his supposed role in helping the US build a case for invading Saddam's Iraq.

 

In a series of meetings with the Guardian in Germany where he has been granted asylum, he said he had told a German official, who he identified as Dr Paul, about mobile bioweapons trucks throughout 2000. He said the BND had identified him as a Baghdad-trained chemical engineer and approached him shortly after 13 March of that year, looking for inside information about Saddam's Iraq.

 

"I had a problem with the Saddam regime," he said. "I wanted to get rid of him and now I had this chance."

 

He portrays the BND as gullible and so eager to tease details from him that they gave him a Perry's Chemical Engineering Handbook to help communicate. He still has the book in his small, rented flat in Karlsruhe, south-west Germany.

 

"They were asking me about pumps for filtration, how to make detergent after the reaction," he said. "Any engineer who studied in this field can explain or answer any question they asked."

 

Janabi claimed he was first exposed as a liar as early as mid-2000, when the BND travelled to a Gulf city, believed to be Dubai, to speak with his former boss at the Military Industries Commission in Iraq, Dr Bassil Latif.

 

The Guardian has learned separately that British intelligence officials were at that meeting, investigating a claim made by Janabi that Latif's son, who was studying in Britain, was procuring weapons for Saddam.

 

That claim was proven false, and Latif strongly denied Janabi's claim of mobile bioweapons trucks and another allegation that 12 people had died during an accident at a secret bioweapons facility in south-east Baghdad.

 

The German officials returned to confront him with Latif's version. "He says, 'There are no trucks,' and I say, 'OK, when [Latif says] there no trucks then [there are none],'" Janabi recalled.

 

He said the BND did not contact him again until the end of May 2002. But he said it soon became clear that he was still being taken seriously.

 

He claimed the officials gave him an incentive to speak by implying that his then pregnant Moroccan-born wife may not be able to travel from Spain to join him in Germany if he did not co-operate with them. "He says, you work with us or your wife and child go to Morocco."

 

The meetings continued throughout 2002 and it became apparent to Janabi that a case for war was being constructed. He said he was not asked again about the bioweapons trucks until a month before Powell's speech.

 

After the speech, Janabi said he called his handler at the BND and accused the secret service of breaking an agreement that they would not share anything he had told them with another country. He said he was told not to speak and placed in confinement for around 90 days.

 

With the US now leaving Iraq, Janabi said he was comfortable with what he did, despite the chaos of the past eight years and the civilian death toll in Iraq, which stands at more than 100,000.

 

"I tell you something when I hear anybody – not just in Iraq but in any war – [is] killed, I am very sad. But give me another solution. Can you give me another solution?

 

"Believe me, there was no other way to bring about freedom to Iraq. There were no other possibilities."

[Awol]

Peter, is it your view that the Assad's regime has not used chemical weapons and the attack on 21/8 was a false flag or rebel inspired incident?  Or are you just opposed to UK jumping in militarily to dish out some punitive punishment? 

[blandy]

The defector scepticism, can be looked at more than the obvious way. Yes people will be sceptical, because last time, if you like, was a load of hogwash. Equally, it doesn't take much charity or open-mindedness to say that maybe the US also don't want to get caught out again?

 

In other words the non-appearance of an expected defector and revealer of all kinds of claimed details may be due to him being found out BEFORE the event, by a more diligent intelligence service?

 

Not saying either way, just saying it's not automatically a sign of more Gov't lies.