Syria

[drat01]

Whilst Cameron may have gone through due process with the commons debate and vote, the stuff supposedly emanating from number 10 and its environs at the moment would suggest that he doesn't 'get it' as much as he claimed he did on Thursday night.

There is a nail that has just been hit completely on the head with that post Snowy 

 

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that. Cameron has lost the plot at the moment, he doesn't know who to blame because parliament did not like his idea of war nor does the UK public. God forbid he could admit he got it wrong 

 

Re the bigger picture the next couple of weeks could be interesting to see what "evidence" is produced - Note to Mr D Cameron of some mansion in Oxfordshire - Google is not a good source of info on proof 

[markavfc40]

 

 

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that.

 

 

 

Genuine question has this really been the case? I try to avoid the right wing media tripe like the plague but I'd fail to see how even the most looney tune right winger could deflect Camerons latest humiliation onto Milliband.

Edited September 1, 2013 by markavfc40

[drat01]

 

 

 

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that.

 

 

 

Genuine question has this really been the case? I try to avoid the right wing media tripe like the plague but I'd fail to see how even the most looney tune right winger could deflect Camerons latest humiliation onto Milliband.

 

Mark - the Torygraph, Mail etc all have anti-Milliband stories

 

e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10278855/Syria-Ed-Miliband-has-angered-American-and-European-leaders-over-Syria-claims-Hague.html

 

What Hague is saying shows a complete and utter contempt for parliament and the UK population in general. The "Nasty" party really do hate it when they are beaten and don't get things their own way. 

[markavfc40]

 

Mark - the Torygraph, Mail etc all have anti-Milliband stories

 

 

 

e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10278855/Syria-Ed-Miliband-has-angered-American-and-European-leaders-over-Syria-claims-Hague.html

 

What Hague is saying shows a complete and utter contempt for parliament and the UK population in general. The "Nasty" party really do hate it when they are beaten and don't get things their own way. 

 

 

 

Cheers Ian. Getting beaten is something they had better get used to.They have a big f*cker to look forward to in May 2015.

Edited September 1, 2013 by markavfc40

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that.

 

 

 

Genuine question has this really been the case? I try to avoid the right wing media tripe like the plague but I'd fail to see how even the most looney tune right winger could deflect Camerons latest humiliation onto Milliband.

 

 

 

well it's also in the Telegraph so take with the usual pinch of bias  but

 

Ed Miliband is facing mounting criticism from within his own party for his handling of the vote on Syria, amid fears that Labour’s approach has damaged Britain’s standing on the world stage

 

Privately, though, some Labour MPs have been more critical. While some on the Opposition benches were elated – and even boorish – at the victory they had secured on Thursday evening, some quickly began to see it differently.

After they had left the Chamber, some of the more reflective Labour politicians quickly found their consciences being pricked when, as if on cue, television images of an apparent firebomb attack on children and adults in a Syrian town near Aleppo began to appear on television screens inside the Palace of Westminster.

“Just as we came out of the Chamber the news of that napalm attack was running on the TV news, which looked like it could have only come from the regime,” said one Labour backbencher.

“Horrific pictures, absolutely horrific. You’d help but wonder what on earth we had just done.”

 

 

Another Labour MP admitted that every atrocity to emerge from Syria would now give rise to a pang of doubt.

 

[Richard]

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that.

 

 

 

Genuine question has this really been the case? I try to avoid the right wing media tripe like the plague but I'd fail to see how even the most looney tune right winger could deflect Camerons latest humiliation onto Milliband.

 

 

 

well it's also in the Telegraph so take with the usual pinch of bias  but

 

 

 

Ed Miliband is facing mounting criticism from within his own party for his handling of the vote on Syria, amid fears that Labour’s approach has damaged Britain’s standing on the world stage

 

Privately, though, some Labour MPs have been more critical. While some on the Opposition benches were elated – and even boorish – at the victory they had secured on Thursday evening, some quickly began to see it differently.

After they had left the Chamber, some of the more reflective Labour politicians quickly found their consciences being pricked when, as if on cue, television images of an apparent firebomb attack on children and adults in a Syrian town near Aleppo began to appear on television screens inside the Palace of Westminster.

“Just as we came out of the Chamber the news of that napalm attack was running on the TV news, which looked like it could have only come from the regime,” said one Labour backbencher.

“Horrific pictures, absolutely horrific. You’d help but wonder what on earth we had just done.”

 

 

Another Labour MP admitted that every atrocity to emerge from Syria would now give rise to a pang of doubt.

 

 

On seeing the vote in commons I recall thinking that there was just a little too much jubilation on the Labour benches than was decent

[bickster]

I think a lot of the deflection (and anger) towards Miliband is borne out of that.

 

 

Genuine question has this really been the case? I try to avoid the right wing media tripe like the plague but I'd fail to see how even the most looney tune right winger could deflect Camerons latest humiliation onto Milliband.

 

well it's also in the Telegraph so take with the usual pinch of bias  but

 

 

 

Ed Miliband is facing mounting criticism from within his own party for his handling of the vote on Syria, amid fears that Labour’s approach has damaged Britain’s standing on the world stage

 

Privately, though, some Labour MPs have been more critical. While some on the Opposition benches were elated – and even boorish – at the victory they had secured on Thursday evening, some quickly began to see it differently.

After they had left the Chamber, some of the more reflective Labour politicians quickly found their consciences being pricked when, as if on cue, television images of an apparent firebomb attack on children and adults in a Syrian town near Aleppo began to appear on television screens inside the Palace of Westminster.

“Just as we came out of the Chamber the news of that napalm attack was running on the TV news, which looked like it could have only come from the regime,” said one Labour backbencher.

“Horrific pictures, absolutely horrific. You’d help but wonder what on earth we had just done.”

 

 

Another Labour MP admitted that every atrocity to emerge from Syria would now give rise to a pang of doubt.

On seeing the vote in commons I recall thinking that there was just a little too much jubilation on the Labour benches than was decent

Yep its definitely all the Tories out to get Milliband now, even Clegg is at it in the Guardian today. Not one person has managed to say why we should be involved just that if we don't get involved then somehow thats Millibands fault. Even though it required cross party support to defeat the Governments motion, 30 Tories voted against, 9 Libdems voted against, that doesn't even include the abstentions of which there were even government ministers.

I'll bet they aren't having this discussion or anything like it in Germany, or Sweden or Australia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Pakistan.

We've supposedly been fighting AQ for over a decade but now we want to help them, as any strike against Assad surely would. You do realise people can see through that kind of nonsense. Blaming Milliband and Labour is just hilarious, too much jubilation? at winning a vote in the commons preventing us from going to war on the same side as AQ? Seriously?

[chrisp65]

yeah, if only they'd voted for some limited surgical smart bombing lead by infallible intelligence this would all be fixed and gone away

[snowychap]

On seeing the vote in commons I recall thinking that there was just a little too much jubilation on the Labour benches than was decent

Nothing partisan in that post, eh?

[snowychap]

Blaming Milliband and Labour is just hilarious...

Indeed.

Apart from the voting details which you've pointed out and the difficulties over the taking of sides, it would appear (normal concerns about polling data taken for granted) that public opinion was not on Cameron's side either.

[tonyh29]

admittedly I've been out the country and missed a lot of this news but the impression given from the article I read was that Milliband was given the briefing and wanted his own amendments , which Clegg & Cameron gave and then Millibnad came back for more , which was also given and Milliband then said he would support the bill

 

and then didn't

 

IF that is the case then , regardless of the rights and wrongs of the actual going to war it does suggest Ed has behaved quite dishonourably in this  ... not sure what game Ed played here really ..or why

 

this article here is quite scathing of Ed  , ok it's the heil , so again allow for it's bias and inaccuracy

[Jon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23931479

 

2 September 2013 Last updated at 13:10

MPs 'right to reject Syria military action' - BBC poll

Several rallies against military action have been held in central London and elsewhere in the country

Continue reading the main story

Syria conflict

 

Almost three-quarters of people believe MPs were right to reject UK military action in Syria, a poll commissioned by the BBC suggests.

The poll also suggested 72% did not think the move would damage the UK-US relationship - and two thirds said they would not care if it did.

ICM Research spoke to 1,000 adults in England, Scotland and Wales by telephone between Friday and Monday.

Downing Street has said there will be no second Parliamentary vote on Syria.

The government lost last week's Commons vote on supporting in principle military action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's government by 13 votes, in response to a suspected chemical weapons attack.

During the period in which the poll was carried out, President Barack Obama said he would consult Congress about military action, and the US Secretary of State John Kerry said Washington had evidence that the nerve agent sarin had been used by the Syrian government in last month's deadly attack in Damascus.

The Syrian deputy foreign minister has told the BBC that armed groups backed by America - not Syrian troops - had used chemical weapons.

The interviews carried out for the poll were then weighted to the demographic profile of all adults across Britain.

'Damaged' reputation

The poll suggested 71% of people thought that Parliament made the right decision when they voted.

By a small margin, a greater proportion of men - 72% - thought MPs made the right decision than women, where 70% agreed.

The poll's findings are broadly in line with other opinion polls asking similar questions, which have also concluded that a substantive majority of people are against UK military involvement in Syria.

A YouGov poll of nearly 2,000 people on Wednesday suggested 50% were against a missile strike, while 25% were in favour

Meanwhile, a poll of nearly 2,000 people carried out by Opinium Research for the Guardian newspaper on Saturday found 60% were opposed to British military action.

Almost half of people questioned - 49% - thought the vote would hurt Britain's international reputation, with 16% believing it would hurt the country's reputation a lot.

But 44% thought it would not make any difference.

Those aged under 35 appeared a bit more concerned than most about the UK's standing, with 57% agreeing the country's reputation would be damaged.

The poll also suggested the Labour leader Ed Miliband had what was known as a "net approval rating" of minus six for his handling of the issue, with 33% of people approving of how he conducted himself and 39% having the opposite view.

Of those questioned, 40% approved of the prime minister's performance, with 42% disapproving, giving him a net approval rating of minus two.

However, these figures are significantly better than their wider recent approval ratings.

A poll for ICM in May of this year gave David Cameron an approval rating of -15 and Ed Miliband an approval rating of -22.

[tonyh29]

^^

 

doesn't Clegg have an approval rating of - 47 or something close

[Jon]

It's all a long cry from the 'I agree with Nick' fawning during the pre election debates. Oh, what a turnaround.

[tonyh29]

might have to trawl through that thread on VT and name and shame them

[Jon]

might have to trawl through that thread on VT and name and shame them

Nooooooo!! (I meant the party leaders by the way, not us laymen). The 'I agree with Nick' line was used regularly by Dave and Gordy, once they realised how 'popular' he was.

 

To be honest, he WAS popular in the election run-up. The problem for Nick is not what he was saying then, but what he has done (or not done) since....

[peterms]

this article here is quite scathing of Ed  , ok it's the heil , so again allow for it's bias and inaccuracy

 

...and its hyperbole, shameless hypocrisy, utter failure of logic, total lack of any semblance of objective analysis.  Could have been written by central office interns, and probably was.  In crayon.

[tonyh29]

 

might have to trawl through that thread on VT and name and shame them

Nooooooo!! (I meant the party leaders by the way, not us laymen). The 'I agree with Nick' line was used regularly by Dave and Gordy, once they realised how 'popular' he was.

 

To be honest, he WAS popular in the election run-up. The problem for Nick is not what he was saying then, but what he has done (or not done) since....

 

 

was still puzzling for me at the time how his popularity didn't turn into votes  ...

 

But I think it was mainly the first debate where he blew Brown and Cameron away and after that they both changed their advisors and clawed things back a bit

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Cutting edge debate on what the **** to do with a country tearing itself apart in a very volatile region!

[drat01]

 

this article here is quite scathing of Ed  , ok it's the heil , so again allow for it's bias and inaccuracy

 

...and its hyperbole, shameless hypocrisy, utter failure of logic, total lack of any semblance of objective analysis.  Could have been written by central office interns, and probably was.  In crayon.

 

 

It seems that Ed and the many MP's of all parties who went against the gung-ho tactics of Cameron have the support of the people

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23931479

 

Some interesting findings in there, not least

 

"Almost three-quarters of people believe MPs were right to reject UK military action in Syria, a poll commissioned by the BBC has suggested."